Why the rich get the tax breaks and the middle class get tax hikes

Quote from peilthetraveler:

I saw this today and I loved it. You always hear people moan about the rich getting tax breaks and this is something that will explain it very well for all those people that you have heard complain about why do the rich get tax breaks.

OUR TAX SYSTEM EXPLAINED....

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers?How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

This has to be the very best way to explain how our tax system works to the American Idol TV viewers out there.

If you don't think the wealthy are sick of paying their "FAIR" (bullshit term to justify over charging) share then why did congress pay laws saying the US govt will still tax you even if you give up your citizenship?? Answer for you tax and spenders, because so many were sick of giving up huge amounts of wealth to the idiots in DC.

Passing Econ101 and 201 should be required to be elected. Better yet, repeal the 16th Amendment and cut the spending. We (including the poor) would be better off in the long run
 
Well, we share things in common. Family well being is the #1, but that's not what Uncle Sam thinks. As I said, the biggest expense is defense budget. The US spends billions in Iraq, and spends trillions to maintain the most sophisticated army in the world. Every corner of the world, there is US presence.

If majority of the US citizen thinks the family is the # 1, then they should vote for a president that cuts back defense budget and increases spending on health care. The riches country in the world but its citizen can't get free health care. It is rather ironic.

That's exactly the reason I think the riches should be tax'd more. There is nothing wrong with my logic. I don't know where your argument is from. (we agree the same thing that family is teh most important, but it seems you don't agree that riches should be tax'd more).
 
That's exactly the reason I think the riches should be tax'd more

-------------------------

If I ate Ramen noodles every day and worked 18 hours a day to get rich and you called me a chump, why do you want to tax my effort? I took the risk.

I'll buy you Ramen noodles if you work 18 hours a day.
 
Quote from freewilly:

Well, we share things in common. Family well being is the #1, but that's not what Uncle Sam thinks. As I said, the biggest expense is defense budget. The US spends billions in Iraq, and spends trillions to maintain the most sophisticated army in the world. Every corner of the world, there is US presence.

If majority of the US citizen thinks the family is the # 1, then they should vote for a president that cuts back defense budget and increases spending on health care. The riches country in the world but its citizen can't get free health care. It is rather ironic.

That's exactly the reason I think the riches should be tax'd more. There is nothing wrong with my logic. I don't know where your argument is from. (we agree the same thing that family is teh most important, but it seems you don't agree that riches should be tax'd more).

You act as if the rich are the only beneficiaries of the defense spending. I don't want to get into a whole thing about it, I agree we spend way too much on defense (and tons of other places), but it's not just the rich who benefit.

Why exactly do you think the riches should be taxed more? I assume it's because of the only other attempted justification people give- because they can afford it?

When you add up all of the benefits that the poor and middle class get compared to what they pay, it's not all that bad a deal. The OP is a bit corny, but there's more truth to it than your example. It's a crap system on many levels.
 
Quote from freewilly:

Well, we share things in common. Family well being is the #1, but that's not what Uncle Sam thinks. As I said, the biggest expense is defense budget. The US spends billions in Iraq, and spends trillions to maintain the most sophisticated army in the world. Every corner of the world, there is US presence.
The riches country in the world but its citizen can't get free health care. It is rather ironic.


I agree that we do not need a world wide empire. with that being said take a look at were the money does go.

over 70% of the budget is NON military related.

Wanna see some govt health care in action? Talk to some vets and see how their 'free' health care is. (clue:long lines, long waiting periods, and you have to drive by lots of private clinics and hospitals because in SO many cases the VA hospitals are not close)

If you think health care is expensive now, wait to you see the cost when its free!!! (not my original words but sooo correct)

Its not a surprise that every single place that has "free" health care has two sets of providers, public and private. guess which one you want to be going to?

This whole argument is BS anyway. Medicare and Medicaid have BK'd us anyway. Just a matter of about 15 years from now. Johnsons great society proves once again that the better the program sounds out of DC the worse it is.
 
Well, I said that my example is way over simplified. The OP went to one extreme, so I went to another extreme. just food for thoughts.

I usually don't argue often whether a system is fair or not, as I believe everyone has his/her own interest. I like to find the best way to utilize the existing system. I actually merely pointing out the OP post neglected some aspects, but probably was misunderstood by some of you.(my fault though, as I intentionally went to another extreme.)

Case closed for me. I will not participate this thread anymore. Hope some of you guys know that things could be viewed from another point.
 
Quote from freewilly:

If majority of the US citizen thinks the family is the # 1, then they should vote for a president that cuts back defense budget and increases spending on health care. The riches country in the world but its citizen can't get free health care. It is rather ironic.


Well if we cut government by just 20% we all can afford to pay for excellent healthcare except for a small percentage. This is without a GOV run healthcare system. Just name one government program that works above an efficiency level.

Oh by the way, we are not the richest country in the world we just have the #1 credit card.
 
Quote from peilthetraveler:

I saw this today and I loved it. You always hear people moan about the rich getting tax breaks and this is something that will explain it very well for all those people that you have heard complain about why do the rich get tax breaks.

OUR TAX SYSTEM EXPLAINED....

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers?How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

you're so far gone, I don't think anyone here is even able to save you.

Being the "genius" you are....I can't see why you would even use this example. It proves you probably don't know what you're talking about.

That is NOT a representation of how things work. Beer has marginal utility.


The tax system is designed in a different manner, based a bit more on consumption and negative effects of it.

Back to the book man.
 
Quote from scriabinop23:

This story rules something simple out: Those who make more money generally consume exponentially more, adding significantly more than their fair share to aggregate demand.

What does this mean? Remember how crude oil for example is priced on the margin, where the last barrel of crude sets the price for all crude ? Same thing. Because rich people use more resources, they drive up the prices for everyone else. So our tax system merely tries to offset this reality.

ie...

10 buyers make up the crude oil market.

4 poor guys (demand 1 barrel each)
each subsequent guy (demands 1+2^n barrels incrementally)
5th guy: 3 barrels
6th guy: 5 barrels
7th guy: 9 barrels
8th guy: 17 barrels
9th guy: 33 barrels
10th guy: 65 barrels

The 10th guy (richest guy who pays the most taxes, or lets say 10% richest of the world) is responsible for demanding almost the sum of everyone else's oil. With an oil market that is capable of producing 90 barrels/day 'cheaply', that extra 46 barrels of marginal demand drives the cost up significantly from the baseline. Should the 10th guy be required to pay taxes to offset the impact to prices he unfairly puts on everyone else? In other words, oil without his buying of 65 barrels/day might be $25. But since he's buying, the cost to produce the extra 46 barrels drives the mkt price up to $100. Why should the 4 poor guys have to pay 4x the oil price AND pay equal taxes when the 10th guy is already effectively 'taxing' them by pushing up price and demanding more than his fair share?

Thats the effective model of the interaction between the developed and third world. The redistribution of wealth facilitated by progressive tax systems attempts to offset this, where tiered pricing is not effectively achieved. Tax rate differences between classes applies just the same.

To a real world question, in oversimplified terms (assuming supply wouldn't be decreased as well), what would crude oil and food be priced at today if the US and EU zone reduced consumption equal to African continent per capita levels? $5-$10 for crude ... $1 for wheat.

well done, I should have read the replies first
 
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