Why the middle class is failing

[Humpy]

The middle class has cars and houses, no?

We picture a marxist as a wild eyed bomb thrower maybe but nowadays Republicans will go along with economic schemes to quell the economic cycles [and it never works, it actually makes them worse] and help the poor [and it creates more poverty], etc.. so everybody is a marxist to some extent. The people that suck money out of the public sector only want a bigger public sector. They don't care if the borrowing leads to collapse. Currently the richest counties in the U.S. surround Washington D.C. so that tells us that if we build it they will come. It's difficult to tax people that can pay off politicians. The only people that can be taxed effectively are workers that get the payment confiscated from their paychecks before they even get paid. Corporations and small businesses can donate to a politician and get complete immunity from paying income taxes. I've read the actual tax codes, it's two yards of books on a shelf and every page has specific tax immunities for specific businesses on it. It's all written so that you can't pinpoint the business or the politician that wrote it... So the middle class is powerless to avoid taxation and some wealthy people allow themselves to be taxed and government is seen as the answer to everything. Government grows and saddles the workers with the costs and we wonder why the middle class keeps losing out year after year after year...

Sounds like a big tax overhaul is needed.
The point of Chinese overtaking English is interesting. When I worked in Hong Kong the guy from Shanghai had to talk to the local guys from Canton in .....you guessed it, English ! China is really about 5 major different countries with dozens of others thrown in. Different cultures and languages. Like Europe really. It's just that to Europeans they all look and sound the same.

 

[Hooti]

I find it difficult to believe that either Reagan or Thatcher was aware of the long range consequences of supply-side stimulus combined with removal of most of the progressiveness in U.S. tax structure. If you could find a link to a quote, I'd be much obliged.

It was discussed many times on the "McLaughlin Group" on PBS at the time. Other than that I don't have a link to a quote.
I have personal recollections of hearing Regan on the news -- multiple times make the statement about needing to limit the time one would cut taxes for the privileged. He very clearly stated the consequences.

Republicans fall all over themselves trying to be more like Regan and cut taxes on the wealthy. They are being less like him.

After Regan was shot... he never was the same. Seemed like the people around him ran things. They just let the tax cuts run on and on and on.

 

[piezoe]

It was discussed many times on the "McLaughlin Group" on PBS at the time. Other than that I don't have a link to a quote.
I have personal recollections of hearing Regan on the news -- multiple times make the statement about needing to limit the time one would cut taxes for the privileged. He very clearly stated the consequences.

Republicans fall all over themselves trying to be more like Regan and cut taxes on the wealthy. They are being less like him.

After Regan was shot... he never was the same. Seemed like the people around him ran things. They just let the tax cuts run on and on and on.

Thanks for that information. I appreciate it.

 

[piezoe]

If something effective is to be done about unsatisfactory economic trends than it is essential to identify root causes. It is easy to get that part wrong. One mistake often made is to confuse correlation with cause. Correlation is necessary, but not sufficient to prove cause.

A lot of this current discussion is about consequences rather than cause. For example, if I were to point out, as I have a number of times, that in the U.S. we are not leaving enough capital with the middle class, particularly the lower two-thirds of the middle class, I'd be talking about consequence rather than cause.

 

[Maverick74]

If something effective is to be done about unsatisfactory economic trends than it is essential to identify root causes. It is easy to get that part wrong. One mistake often made is to confuse correlation with cause. Correlation is necessary, but not sufficient to prove cause.

A lot of this current discussion is about consequences rather than cause. For example, if I were to point out, as I have a number of times, that in the U.S. we are not leaving enough capital with the middle class, particularly the lower two-thirds of the middle class, I'd be talking about consequence rather than cause.

A couple of things. First, I did give a cause...monetary policy. Second, these people publishing research all have PhDs. They all understand correlation and probably took more math courses then everyone in your family combined. I actually went to grad school and have a Masters in Economics. I also took a lot of math courses. And so did my professors. You seem to enjoy talking down to these people as if they are writing high school term papers. I admit I take a fair amount of pot shots at academia but having been through grad school and seeing how much work and effort these people put into their discipline and research and considering they dedicate their entire lives to this type of research, I would give them a little more respect then you do. You seem to act like you are the only one that understands basic math concepts which I find laughable. What is it you do for a living Piezoe? Do you have any published research out there we can read? I'm not being condescending, my apologies if you are credentialed. I certainly would give you the benefit of the doubt if you had your PhD in economics and spent your life doing research in this area instead of cherry picking your favorite blogs or popular economic books as the foundation of your knowledge.

 

[piezoe]

I read your posts. And it seems you read mine. I thank you for that. It's OK to disagree. I have no problem with that.

 

[birzos]

"Why the middle class is failing"

That's very simple, the elites these past years and decades allowed the middle class do all the work and take all the risk, and now those same elites want that capital so will surely, but not necessarily slowly, strip it away from them.

How will that occur, well the devil is in the detail but let's just say it's incredibly efficient, and the middle class will not have the toolsets nor knowledge to put up a fight. Fun days ahead.

 

[piezoe]

"Why the middle class is failing"

That's very simple, the elites these past years and decades allowed the middle class do all the work and take all the risk, and now those same elites want that capital so will surely, but not necessarily slowly, strip it away from them.

How will that occur, well the devil is in the detail but let's just say it's incredibly efficient, and the middle class will not have the toolsets nor knowledge to put up a fight. Fun days ahead.

They do, however, have some ways of putting up a fight. The "fight" can take the form of civil disobedience. This can ultimately make it at least uncomfortable for the Capital Class. When Capital arrives in town in their Mercedes they may be afraid to step out of their car. Sometimes Capital will respond with palliative measures, and sometimes the response is substantive.

“This election was lost four and five and six years ago not this year. They dident start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickled down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the dryest little spot. But he dident know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow’s hands. They saved the big banks but the little ones went up the flue.” Will Rogers 1932​

 

[birzos]

They do, however, have some ways of putting up a fight. The "fight" can take the form of civil disobedience. This can ultimately make it at least uncomfortable for the Capital Class. When Capital arrives in town in their Mercedes they may be afraid to step out of their car. Sometimes Capital will respond with palliative measures, and sometimes the response is substantive.

“This election was lost four and five and six years ago not this year. They dident start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickled down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the dryest little spot. But he dident know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow’s hands. They saved the big banks but the little ones went up the flue.” Will Rogers 1932​

And then the elites will go and create a war and give everyone a bigger problem, make it uncomfortable for them, they will eviscerate you should it serve their purpose. Their version of quid pro quo.

 

[ironchef]

And create a lot of new jobs for those who have the knowledge.

I really hope so.

Looking back into the history of humankind, invariably, all new inventions and technologies created a lot of disruptions but ultimately created lots of more new jobs.

This time it will not be different.