Why the F--k is the US supporting Georgia and Antagonizing Russia?

[achilles28]

Quote from a_person:

The Quebec separatists lost the referendum so there was no reason to send troops, who knows what would have happened if they actually got a majority of votes.

Please. I live in Canada and been a citizen all my life.

There is no way you'd see the Royal Canadian Airforce carpet bombing Montreal if Quebec voted "Yes" to Separation. Thats a joke.

Canadians wouldn't take up arms against each other.

Thats what makes a Country a Country.

Quote from a_person:

At any rate, I was not discussing the appropriateness of Georgia's action, it's a matter of a separate thread,

Because its easier slant truth when only those facts sympathetic to your argument are shown for public consumption, right?

That's called lying through omission.

Don't be such a Machiavellian Coward.

Georgia invaded Ossetia. Georgia admitted it. Why cant you?

Quote from a_person:

"The Clarity Act" which for all intents and purposes amounts to a veto power over the outcome of any referendum so if Canadian separatists persist and get a majority at some point of time in the future, a civil war will not be out of the question.

Rationalizing Georgias invasion of Ossetia with a Canadian Civil War that will never happen, laughable.

Your people might be particularly belligerent and power hungry to separatists that want nothing to do with you.

But Canada isn't.

Quote from a_person:

But as I said I was not discussing Georgia, I was talking about Russia

Yes, lets just focus on why Russia is "bad" and how Georgia is sweet and innocent. LOL.

 

[a_person]

Quote from achilles28:

Likening the will of 30,000 ethnic and territorially distinct people to a gaggle of 5 that share the same trailer-park. Nonsensical.
And where do you draw the line? What if a trailer-park declares that it's no longer part of Texas but is instead an independent state (or country). What if Liverpool or Paris votes to secede from the EU?

Mongol rule??? Annexes prior to 1000 BC dont count....LOL
Well, that was in 1200-1250 AD

What freedom loving democracy bombs the piss out of a break-away province?
Oh come on, cut this self-righteous nonsense. You support Russia in this conflict while using the words "democracy" and "freedom" in every sentence. You can't have it both ways, either support russia or stop talking about democracy and freedom which russia has never represented and likely never will.

FWIW Russia did bomb the crap out of Chechnya, hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties in that conflict compared to 133 civilian deaths in this Georgian conflict. Let alone the fact that the Ossetians had been shooting at Georgia for years even though Russia according to the ceasefire agreement was obligated to keep them demilitarized. Pretending that Georgia was doing all the shooting and carried out all the attacks is completely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

Isn't that how Georgia broke away from Russia, to begin with? Declared its independence?
Russia agreed, Georgia did not, Russia invaded Georgia and occupied it for a few hundred years, Georgia never invaded and occupied Ossetia, in fact it let Ossetian refugees start a new life on their land a few hundred years ago.


I'm against both attacks. Thats what "two wrongs, don't make a right", means.
It's certainly not obvious from your posts that you don't approve of the Russian invasion. You've criticized everything and everyone - Bush, Saakashvili, Georgia, Gulf wars, Bostnia etc with the exception of Russia and Putin.


Georgia ADMITTED they initiated the attack. And still, you can't man-up and admit they were in the wrong.
I don't care whether Georgia attacked Ossetia as it did not attack Russia. I am not interested in Georgia, I am just trying to point out that people like you who did not support the war in Iraq suddenly find a million excuses for the Russian invasion of Georgia.

Russia committed some real atrocities in Chechnya. But are you gonna sit there and tell me Russias an evil force we must contend with
Of course they are. That's exactly the point I've been trying to make.


while giving a pass to the United States (and its little lapdog Georgia) who are busy invading countries around the world?
I never said that. You on the other hand are the one who is giving a pass to Russia while you never gave a pass to the US or its allies under similar circumstances.

 

[a_person]

Quote from achilles28:

Please. I live in Canada and been a citizen all my life.

There is no way you'd see the Royal Canadian Airforce carpet bombing Montreal if Quebec voted "Yes" to Separation. Thats a joke.

that's not how it would play out. The separatists would win a referendum, the government would veto it using this new law, if the separatist region declares a war on the rest of Canada and starts ethnic cleansing of the english speaking residents of the province the way the Ossetians did when the result of their referendum was dismissed you'll have a perfect civil war not dissimilar to what happened in Georgia.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from a_person:



while giving a pass to the United States (and its little lapdog Georgia) who are busy invading countries around the world?
I never said that. You on the other hand are the one who is giving a pass to Russia while you never gave a pass to the US or its allies under similar circumstances.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I condemned all sides, equally. Go back and re-read.

Most American Wars are contrived and based on lies.

Gulf War 1 and 2, perfect examples.

America green-lighted Saddam to invade Kuwait. So they could later swoop in and pose as the "good guy".

Round Two - pure fabricated intel from start to finish.

There is no moral equivalency.

Russia, in this instance, had the moral high ground.

Why? Because they didn't provoke the conflict.

When a State provokes conflict, either through lies, deception our outright fraud, they are in the Wrong.

Doesn't matter if its the Good Ol Red White and Blue defending Americans from Niger Yellow Cake that never was.

Its a fraud. A lie to go to war. Sort of like how Hitler dressed up a German officer as a Polish solider and had him fire on a German outpost.

Its staged.

As for Georgia, they caught the short end of the stick.

Maybe, they should think twice before they roll over their own "Country men" with tanks and bombs?

Heres a question for you:

If Sovereign Nations don't invade other Sovereigns in the 21st Century, as Bush likes to jest....

does that make it okay for Sovereigns to use that same Military Power against their own, unarmed "citizens"?

Cause thats what your beloved Georgia did.

See? Its all a joke. Lies build on frauds built on deception.

But we're the "good guys", so lying to the People makes it "okay".

 

[achilles28]

Quote from a_person:

that's not how it would play out. The separatists would win a referendum, the government would veto it using this new law, if the separatist region declares a war on the rest of Canada and starts ethnic cleansing of the english speaking residents of the province the way the Ossetians did when the result of their referendum was dismissed you'll have a perfect civil war not dissimilar to what happened in Georgia.

You're grasping at straws.

Have you ever been to Canada? Have you ever met a Canadian?

Quebec is as likely to secede from Canada as Texas from the United States.

Come to Canada. A land of Milk and Honey.

Francophones talk tough (sometimes). But at the end of the day, they don't care. They like things just the way they are. They're taken care of nicely, lots of concessions and freebies.

They will never have it as good alone. And they know it.

Besides, do you know what kind of people live in Quebec? Middle-class whites that suck from the Government Tit.

A more likely scenerio would be Texas seceding under a Martial Law scenario.

Americas heritage is far more dystopic and revolutionary than Canadas.

Even still, there's way too many fat, lazy, ignorant fools that populate both Countries for any revolution to take seed.

Its all just hot-air and chest-thumping.

So please stop spinning Georgias invasion as "this-is-something-that-Nations-do-and-could-happen-to-anyone", pure nonsense.

 

[Signate67]

Archilles said
"Russia, in this instance, had the moral high ground.
Why? Because they didn't provoke the conflict. "

Absolute shite, Russia have been planning this for years, issuing passports aggressively over the last 5 years to Gerogian citizens of S Ossetia. Russian militia had been moving freely in S Ossetia for years, all it would have taken was a little nudge and wink from Russian authorities for them to ignite this event
They then threw a match into the keg on the opening of the olympic games, well timed allowing themselves to come in as the supposed Good guys and the Heroes.

 

[Ivanovich]

Quote from Signate67:

Archilles said
"Russia, in this instance, had the moral high ground.
Why? Because they didn't provoke the conflict. "

Absolute shite, Russia have been planning this for years, issuing passports aggressively over the last 5 years to Gerogian citizens of S Ossetia. Russian militia had been moving freely in S Ossetia for years, all it would have taken was a little nudge and wink from Russian authorities for them to ignite this event
They then threw a match into the keg on the opening of the olympic games, well timed allowing themselves to come in as the supposed Good guys and the Heroes.

100% accurate. Russia has been itching for the excuse to hit Georgia, which is why the US advised that Georgia not kick a sleeping dog.

 

[a_person]

Quote from achilles28:

I condemned all sides, equally. Go back and re-read.
...
America green-lighted Saddam to invade Kuwait.
...
Russia, in this instance, had the moral high ground.
LOL, does it sound like equal condemnation?

I just love this nonsense, Saddam invades Kuwait, the war to liberate Kuwait is authorized by your beloved UN and is supported by the entire world including most muslim/arab countries but the US is still the bad guy. Russia which provoked this conflict to begin with illegally invades its neighbor, lies through their teeth about civilian casualties (making fools of people like you who keep blindly believing them), yet they have the moral high ground. Sorry to break it to you but only in your imagination Russia has the moral high ground and only in your imagination the US is to blame for Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

It's quite telling though that you claim things about the US for which you have no evidence whatsoever and at the same time you're more than willing to overlook 20 years of Russian provocations, intimidation, preparations, threats and meddling in the internal affairs of all its neighbors. I guess whatever it takes to keep convincing yourself that the US and all its allies are always bad while all anti-american regimes in the world are good and have the moral high ground by default.

 

[Signate67]

I bet Medvedev does not even know matter of factly, that this has been a very behind the scenes Kremlin plan (to spark a conflict and then to go in making the Georgians out to be the bad guys and the Russians the saviour of the day)

Then getting poor little Medvedev to sign the Cease fire agreement, he didn't even know that russia would later renague on the agreeement he signed, keeping forces in Poti etc etc

Putin is busy toughening Medvedev up nicely (getting him to smoke dope with the group without him even knowing it) pretty soon he will be a power crazed drug addict like Putin and partners in crime, and loving it. The F*&cken Russians, what a lovely nation.