Why Some Scientists Embrace the 'Multiverse

[pspr]

Quote from stu:

....but as you're such a massive troll you got here first..... talk about irony.

The super troll calling me a troll? That's rich.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from maxpi:

multiverse is eternity for atheists. They were jealous of the rest of us so they made their own... pretty smart, those atheists.

I've known a few atheists. They tend to have astoundingly bad lives! Does anybody else notice this? Here on the Central Coast of California there are a lot of people that pray to a nameless faceless god called "the Universe", they tend to have astoundingly bad lives too..

I notice it too. There seems to be some common elements to atheists. Generally unkempt, rarely smiling(unless they are bashing Christians with other athiests) and just generally unpleasant people. Even Richard Dawkins who has millions of dollars, never seems to smile.

 

[Hoofhearted]

Quote from jem:

Last week, in Nice, France, I was privileged to participate, along with 30 scholars, mostly scientists and mathematicians, in a conference on the question of whether the universe was designed, or at least fine-tuned, to make life, especially intelligent life. Participants -- from Yale, Princeton, Harvard, Berkeley and Columbia among other American and European universities -- included believers in God, agonistics and atheists.

But it was clear that the scientific consensus was that, at the very least, the universe is exquisitely fine-tuned to allow for the possibility of life. It appears that we live in a "Goldilocks Universe," in which both the arrangement of matter at the cosmic beginning and the values of various physical parameters -- such as the speed of light, the strength of gravitational attraction and the expansion rate of the universe - are just right. And unless one is frightened of the term, it also appears the universe is designed for biogenesis and human life.



Regarding fine-tuning, one could write a book just citing the arguments for it made by some of the most distinguished scientists in the world. Here is just a tiny sample found on the website of physicist Gerald Schroeder, holder of bachelor's, master's and doctorate degrees from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he later taught physics.

Michael Turner, astrophysicist at the University of Chicago and Fermilab: "The precision is as if one could throw a dart across the entire universe and hit a bulls eye one millimeter in diameter on the other side."

Paul Davies, professor of theoretical physics at Adelaide University: "The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off even slightly."

Roger Penrose, the Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford, writes that the likelihood of the universe having usable energy (low entropy) at its creation is "one part out of ten to the power of ten to the power of 123." That is "a million billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion zeros."

Steven Weinberg, recipient of the Nobel Prize in Physics, and an anti-religious agnostic, notes that "the existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places. This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:

100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, but instead:

100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001, there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe."

Unless one is a closed-minded atheist (there are open-minded atheists), it is not valid on a purely scientific basis to deny that the universe is improbably fine-tuned to create life, let alone intelligent life. Additionally, it is atheistic dogma, not science, to dismiss design as unscientific. The argument that science cannot suggest that intelligence comes from intelligence or design from an intelligent designer is simply a tautology. It is dogma masquerading as science.

And now, many atheist scientists have inadvertently provided logical proof of this.

They have put forward the notion of a multiverse -- the idea that there are many, perhaps an infinite number of, other universes. This idea renders meaningless the fine-tuning and, of course, the design arguments.

After all, with an infinite number of universes, a universe with parameters friendly to intelligent life is more likely to arise somewhere by chance.

But there is not a shred of evidence of the existence of these other universes. Nor could there be since contact with another universe is impossible.

Therefore, only one conclusion can be drawn: The fact that atheists have resorted to the multiverse argument constitutes a tacit admission that they have lost the argument about design in this universe. The evidence in this universe for design -- or, if you will, the fine-tuning that cannot be explained by chance or by "enough time" -- is so compelling that the only way around it is to suggest that our universe is only one of an infinite number of universes.

Honest atheists -- scientists and lay people -- must now acknowledge that science itself argues overwhelmingly for a Designing Intelligence. And honest believers must acknowledge that the existence of a Designing Intelligence is not necessarily the same as the existence of benevolent God.

To posit the existence of a Creator requires only reason. To posit the existence of a good God requires faith.

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Again I'm confused by your posting.

Are these your thoughts, or do the writings you have posted belong to another or others?

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Hoofhearted:

Again I'm confused by your posting.

Are these your thoughts, or do the writings you have posted belong to another or others?

Click the link, hoof. It's the same article.

 

[nondescript]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

Click the link, hoof. It's the same article.

Article is by Dennis Prager, a well known devoutly religious (Jewish)
and deeply conservative radio talk show host. Twice divorced, he married two shiksas had them convert to Orthodox Judaism. Now that's a really true blue family value centric conservative!

 

[pspr]

Quote from nondescript:

Article is by Dennis Prager, a well known devoutly religious (Jewish)
and deeply conservative radio talk show host. Twice divorced, he married two shiksas had them convert to Orthodox Judaism. Now that's a really true blue family value centric conservative!

If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger.

What? You only want science presented by atheists? LOL

 

[jem]

here is a hint for the next time....

If the article does not have any typos-- its not jem on elitetrader.
I do not usually refer to myself as jem... but in real life I have authored some articles which were well written.

Quote from Hoofhearted:

Again I'm confused by your posting.

Are these your thoughts, or do the writings you have posted belong to another or others?

 

[maxpi]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

I notice it too. There seems to be some common elements to atheists. Generally unkempt, rarely smiling(unless they are bashing Christians with other athiests) and just generally unpleasant people. Even Richard Dawkins who has millions of dollars, never seems to smile.

I know one currently [there aren't that many of them seemingly]. The guy is an overweight mess rolling around in a wheelchair, barely able to put sentences together unless he's channeling MSNBC and insulting generally half the people in earshot. I first met him about four years ago. He needed a brain operation but get this.. his wife wouldn't let him! She didn't like it that he came out and had lunch with myself and friends! She played him along like that until last year whereupon she divorced him and took everything...

I knew one way back in the day, he had three kids, two died violently. He sold his house just before the most stupendous rise in house prices and could never afford another one... One of his daughters was standing next to her friend when friend's ex-husband went after his wife with a shotgun. The guy blew them both away. His son was a criminal-underground bail bondsman/investigator/law student/thief/political activist. He got killed in a hit and run when he went for his daily run...

 

[maxpi]

Quote from stu:

Next you'll be saying you're not a self-righteous, pious, sanctimonious bigot, and some of your best friends are atheists.

LOL

 

[maxpi]

I'm recalling more of these observations of atheists/satanists.. I rented a room from a really quirky Swiss woman.. turned out she was doing things with Tarot cards and such. She got upset with me because I thought the devil was bad! She had gone to Europe to take care of her dying mother. Her brothers promised to pay her for that. She became embroiled in a battle with the European medical cartel when she tried to give her mother natural supplements, that drained her emotionally. While she was gone a widlfire destroyed her apartment in America which was on the back of her property. She lost all her stuff. Her flakey friends that were renting rooms weren't paying the rent while she was away and did nothing to rescue her stuff. Her mom died so she came back to the US of A. Her brothers then decided they were not going to pay her for her months in Europe and withheld her inheritance to boot. Her cancer returned. When I moved in to the rented room she had one other tenant. The guy had gotten her credit card info and was buying stuff with it, screwed up her internet connection, phones, and was controlling the mail by waiting for the mailman every day. She joined Kevin Trudeau's multi-level marketing thing and wouldn't leave me alone about it so I had to move. There was unlimited opportunity to pour money into Trudeau's bank account and I'm sure she made the best of it. He got arrested [again!!] recently of course....

That was just one two-year period of her life!!