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Why real traders do not discuss gains or losses...
- Thread starter Port1385
- Start date
There are so many factors that go into earnings.
If one trader has a full time job, house paid off and investable cash of $250,000 and makes $2,000 for the month, that's nice but no big accomplishment. He's relaxed and +2,000 or -2,000 no big deal.
Another trader has no job, only $2,500 in his account and bills to pay at the end of the month. If he makes $2,000 that is quite an accomplishment. He is under pressure a +2,000 or -2,000 is a big deal.
So that is about context.
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Then there is experience, skill, and consistency.
Two traders of similar situation and both trading the same instrument with the same capital (both $20,000 and both ES), but one is brand new (trader N) and the other has knowledge and experience (trader E). The new trader has a lucky streak and makes $2,000 - no analysis, no trading plan, no stops.
The other, trader E has a solid setup with a edge follows his plan, filters his trades and has solid analysis and a logically positioned stop. He too makes $2,000.
Both made $2,000. The odds that trader E will perform similarly next month are good and for trader N it is "spin the wheel".
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Then there is ego, vanity and envy.
An experienced trader may not post his results because on a good month it may create jealousy or envy in others. This can cause them to abandon their plans and try to copy him, or depress themselves because "he's making money why aren't I?', or take reckless gambles.
An experienced trader may not post his results because on a bad month, because he knows from experience that it invites, ridicule or "helpful" advice, or being thought less of - just when he needs to remind himself of that his plan is solid and that he shouldn't doubt it or himself.
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It's very hard to see any value in posting results. One of the few cases would be if every trader was only posting sim trades, before the trade or right at the trade time, on the same instrument and sharing their targets, stops, reasons for the trade and the posting was done with the goal of helping each other become better traders.
In most forums I have noticed boasting, snide comments, superficial discussion, envy, and immature emotional framework and lack of any sincere effort to work together to help each other become better.
If you could start a forum where people were not allowed to post anything but helpful and positive comments and where new ideas could be expressed without ridicule by the resident trolls - then you could create a place where traders looked forward to going and posting.
I have yet to find one of these!
Good trading to all!
It's not "all about the money"
If one trader has a full time job, house paid off and investable cash of $250,000 and makes $2,000 for the month, that's nice but no big accomplishment. He's relaxed and +2,000 or -2,000 no big deal.
Another trader has no job, only $2,500 in his account and bills to pay at the end of the month. If he makes $2,000 that is quite an accomplishment. He is under pressure a +2,000 or -2,000 is a big deal.
So that is about context.
----------
Then there is experience, skill, and consistency.
Two traders of similar situation and both trading the same instrument with the same capital (both $20,000 and both ES), but one is brand new (trader N) and the other has knowledge and experience (trader E). The new trader has a lucky streak and makes $2,000 - no analysis, no trading plan, no stops.
The other, trader E has a solid setup with a edge follows his plan, filters his trades and has solid analysis and a logically positioned stop. He too makes $2,000.
Both made $2,000. The odds that trader E will perform similarly next month are good and for trader N it is "spin the wheel".
----
Then there is ego, vanity and envy.
An experienced trader may not post his results because on a good month it may create jealousy or envy in others. This can cause them to abandon their plans and try to copy him, or depress themselves because "he's making money why aren't I?', or take reckless gambles.
An experienced trader may not post his results because on a bad month, because he knows from experience that it invites, ridicule or "helpful" advice, or being thought less of - just when he needs to remind himself of that his plan is solid and that he shouldn't doubt it or himself.
------
It's very hard to see any value in posting results. One of the few cases would be if every trader was only posting sim trades, before the trade or right at the trade time, on the same instrument and sharing their targets, stops, reasons for the trade and the posting was done with the goal of helping each other become better traders.
In most forums I have noticed boasting, snide comments, superficial discussion, envy, and immature emotional framework and lack of any sincere effort to work together to help each other become better.
If you could start a forum where people were not allowed to post anything but helpful and positive comments and where new ideas could be expressed without ridicule by the resident trolls - then you could create a place where traders looked forward to going and posting.
I have yet to find one of these!
Good trading to all!
It's not "all about the money"
Quote from simpleRT:
Yes, it's important to never disclose your positions in the market in daytrading because that will create emotion and that is something you don't want.
Yes I think one creates a locked mindset as well.
You may end up staying in a trade because you have stated publically where it is going to go.
so that's how they are. I always wondered what top traders always do.Quote from Port1385:
The simple fact is that you tempt fate by either being overly positive or negative about gains or losses.
Bragging about gains brings upon you an overly confident attitude that nothing can touch you. You start to increase your size, increase your use of margin. The market seems to be with you for a while until it comes crashing down and fate bites you where it hurts most.
Being too depressed about losses makes you walk away from the market and you get to the point where you dont want to do this any longer...
Either attitude is very destructive. Top traders are always silent and emotionless just like poker players at a table. You dont want to show anyone your hand and you want to keep your attitude clean...
Livermore has a good discussion in Reminisces of a Stock Operator around Chapter V I believe. Think around page 100 or so of the .pdf.
It's about hope and fear and how traders should essentially feel the opposite of the normally inflicted response to loss or gain. It's spot on in my opinion at least.
It's about hope and fear and how traders should essentially feel the opposite of the normally inflicted response to loss or gain. It's spot on in my opinion at least.
Quote from speero:
Livermore has a good discussion in Reminisces of a Stock Operator around Chapter V I believe. Think around page 100 or so of the .pdf.
It's about hope and fear and how traders should essentially feel the opposite of the normally inflicted response to loss or gain. It's spot on in my opinion at least.
Somewhat bizarre to cite Livermore on emotional control since he blew out multiple times, on some occasions losing an entire fortune, and ended up shooting himself.
at least he went out like a man, not like these wimps today who blow up and get a job as an "expert" at CNBC.Quote from Specterx:
Somewhat bizarre to cite Livermore on emotional control since he blew out multiple times, on some occasions losing an entire fortune, and ended up shooting himself.
People just get angry when you are doing way better than they are, many think you should share cause they are losing. Doesn't make me more money by telling people my positions, matter of fact, it could cost me a few ticks when I am trying to get out. Long ago it was fun to watch the account go up, at some point just stopped watching it, either I made money today or didn't and how will I have to change as per my rules for tomorrow. But losing is just a 1-2 day frustration, goal is to be profitable each week.
Quote from Specterx:
Somewhat bizarre to cite Livermore on emotional control since he blew out multiple times, on some occasions losing an entire fortune, and ended up shooting himself.
I wouldn't say bizarre, ironic, maybe. However, I believe just because he was wrong at one extreme point at the end of his life he at least had some correct principles on the emotions of trading.