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why prop firms pay people to trade?
- Thread starter 0008
- Start date
Quote from Hawkeye23:
It appears that FNYS has a completely different business model from most other proprietary trading firms.
1. FNYS pays a salary and benefits; most others don't.
2. FNYS trains for 12-18 mos.; most others don't.
3. FNYS puts its capital at risk; most others don't.
4. FNYS keeps half the trading profits for itself; most others don't.
It appears that through these very significant differences in its approach, FNYS attracts very bright trainees with demonstrated trading aptitude, provides extended professional training and mentoring, and achieves a win-win for itself and its employees.
In New Market wizards Sperandeo said he also trained and gave capitals to people to trade but those successed quit. I think this could happen anywhere. Why FNYS still doing such thing.
Quote from goldenarm:
I heard that they've let a lot of people go and they aren't offering a salary or draw to new people unless they've got a good track record. The information on their website appears to be outdated.
FNYS does state in its recruiting ads that it requires applicants to have "a proven track record of success in financial markets and trading."
It appears that an applicant who does not meet this and other requirements is not hired by FNYS on any basis at all.
This quote from http://www.fnysllc.com/history.htm suggests that at least this portion of the FNYS website was updated very recently:
"Currently, we have 200 traders worldwide. As of February 1, 2003 we are opening an office in San Francisco, California."
What is the source of your having heard that "they've let a lot of people go", and how reliable is this source?
Quote from Hawkeye23:
FNYS does state in its recruiting ads that it requires applicants to have "a proven track record of success in financial markets and trading."
It appears that an applicant who does not meet this and other requirements is not hired by FNYS on any basis at all.
But that doesn't make sense because in the FAQ section, it is stated that most people in the Trader Trainee positions are taken out directly from undergraduate programs. How can you get "a proven track record of success" while an undergrad in college?
Quote from okwon:
But that doesn't make sense because in the FAQ section, it is stated that most people in the Trader Trainee positions are taken out directly from undergraduate programs. How can you get "a proven track record of success" while an undergrad in college?
The trainee profiles at http://www.fnysllc.com/profiles.htm seem to show what FNYS means by "a proven track record of success" while still an undergraduate.
In case you guys have been totally brainwashed by the "prop trading" hype/snake oil, etc. traders at most firms do get PAID to trade/invest long term.
I mean either on the sell side as market makers. Or buy side institutional traders. Or institutional fund managers. quant funds. hedge funds. mutual funds. etc. They ALL get paid.
Sure, you don't get a huge cut of your profits, but you get a salary, benefits. and 6 figures bonuses at the end of the year if all goes well.
It's NOT charity! It's called employment. Wake up and smell the coffee. hehe.
But obviously in this downturn, job security is not there. But it's still the safest route to learn the market.
If you are really really good enough to take large amount of $ out of the market every single day, then prop trading is the way to go.
But if you are struggling and barely net positive then it's better to play with OPM while getting a salary. Even first year new undergrad get a min of $50K. MBA get 85-130K. All first years. Phds and quants get anywhere from 90-200K depending how good they are.
So, it's not charity. It's just a job. Unless you think are can pull down more than MINIMUM a $100K/yr doing prop trading and risk your own money, it's better to go the institutional route. Otherwise it's not worth the stress, risk, and possible financial ruin for some people I see...
having done both, i think prop trading rocks if you can pull the money out of the market. the freedom and independence rocks. the pay is phenomenal if you know what you are doing.
good luck trading.
trader99
I mean either on the sell side as market makers. Or buy side institutional traders. Or institutional fund managers. quant funds. hedge funds. mutual funds. etc. They ALL get paid.
Sure, you don't get a huge cut of your profits, but you get a salary, benefits. and 6 figures bonuses at the end of the year if all goes well.
It's NOT charity! It's called employment. Wake up and smell the coffee. hehe.
But obviously in this downturn, job security is not there. But it's still the safest route to learn the market.
If you are really really good enough to take large amount of $ out of the market every single day, then prop trading is the way to go.
But if you are struggling and barely net positive then it's better to play with OPM while getting a salary. Even first year new undergrad get a min of $50K. MBA get 85-130K. All first years. Phds and quants get anywhere from 90-200K depending how good they are.
So, it's not charity. It's just a job. Unless you think are can pull down more than MINIMUM a $100K/yr doing prop trading and risk your own money, it's better to go the institutional route. Otherwise it's not worth the stress, risk, and possible financial ruin for some people I see...
having done both, i think prop trading rocks if you can pull the money out of the market. the freedom and independence rocks. the pay is phenomenal if you know what you are doing.
good luck trading.
trader99
Okay that makes sense. Plus judging from what they say on their site, they take in about 50 trader trainees a year. And from the growth of their operation, it seems that they retain about 30-35 of them. 60-70% retention of new traders is definitely not bad for a prop. firm. I guess their model works for them.
MondoTrader
Elite Member
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
02-07-03 07:07 PM
"the answer is........ your assumption that they pay people to trade is totally false."
Mondo, you're an idiot, where do you get off saying that? They PAY trainees an actual salary (not draw) of 45,000 to learn, this is as of last night when I spoke with my friend there.
goldenarm
Elite Member
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 648
02-07-03 11:37 PM
FSNY
"I heard that they've let a lot of people go and they aren't offering a salary or draw to new people unless they've got a good track record. The information on their website appears to be outdated."
Goldenarm, you're talking out of your ass. call up FNYS and see if the info is outdated you idiot! it's current and they just redid their website so all info is up to date
Trader99, you're on the money, wondering where people like you are.
Elite Member
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
02-07-03 07:07 PM
"the answer is........ your assumption that they pay people to trade is totally false."
Mondo, you're an idiot, where do you get off saying that? They PAY trainees an actual salary (not draw) of 45,000 to learn, this is as of last night when I spoke with my friend there.
goldenarm
Elite Member
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 648
02-07-03 11:37 PM
FSNY
"I heard that they've let a lot of people go and they aren't offering a salary or draw to new people unless they've got a good track record. The information on their website appears to be outdated."
Goldenarm, you're talking out of your ass. call up FNYS and see if the info is outdated you idiot! it's current and they just redid their website so all info is up to date
Trader99, you're on the money, wondering where people like you are.