why pay anything?

This isn't really a comment toward any specific post on this thread, rather its a general observation that in my experience you get what you pay for in this business most of the time.

It should hardly be suprising why a guy still paying 1/2-3/4 of a cent per share using one monitor, mediocre software, briefing.com for news and a DSL can't seem to make it.

Nobody could win car races consistently with a beatup ford/chevy when your going against formula 1's.

Yeah his expenses are next to nothing, but usually its because he's not making jack. His trading is a function in a lot of ways of what tools he does have. If I've got that setup above....I'm probably stuck swing trading or taking a longer time horizon on most of my trades cause my news is stale, my quotes are probably behind a thousand other guys with better connectivity, and I"m missing opportunities left and right because I don't have enough screen realestate.

Now compare that above a guy spending 2-3 grand a month.

His setup might be a t-1, quad monitors, he paying 1/3 of a cent per share or less, utilizes 2-3 software packages, he's automated some stuff, maybe paid a programmer a few grand if he can't do it, for news he's next to a bloomberg monitor or kicks down 2-3 hundred for wallstreet source , and a 50 dollar a month spoos squawk box blaring all day. He shells out a couple hundred more a month for 10-15 conversion so he can always get short a basket of stocks if need be.

Is he throwing money away? Not if Bloomberg throws up an FDA approval headline and he's able to grab the first 5K shares on the offer after the stock has already lifted 30 cents but before its lifted 3 bucks when briefing.com reports it. etc, etc.

For the most part traders aren't throwing away money for stuff they don't need. The first thing almost every sucessful trader does as they accumulate capital is upgrade their setup.

Traders know what makes them money. I've tried about everything. The most expensive tools usually pay for themselves pretty quick if you know how to utilize them.

Yeah the guy with a 10K Etrade account is going to get much out of paying 1750 a month for bloomberg but some guys sure as hell do. :)
 
Quote from BSAM:
.....But to simplify and so that all can really understand.....
It's not the price of the software; it's the trader AND the style of trading.
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Yes, but I don't think anyone really said it was specifically about the price of the software - merely that discounting costlier than bare bones was absurb.

An expensive self-contained power nailer or a formula one racer is an accident waiting to happen in the hands of someone without sufficient skill to use it. Of course, there's a ton of crappy and useless (and expensive) "tools" in the trading world, but that doesn't mean there aren't tools that easily pay for themselves in the hands of certain traders. The idea that it's solely about the trader and that a trader "truly in the biz" needs only the most basic (and least costly) tools is the naive basis of this thread that people have been reacting to.
 
Quote from risktaker:

A surgeon cannot operate with his bare hands, without nurses, without electricity, without other doctors, without equipment costing $millions in some cases. Same thing in trading. It's not just the trader/brain, it's the TOTAL package.

Your argument makes sense only if you expect trading to be a losing proposition or you have no expectation of becoming profitable.
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Index Arbitrage would be another example. The concept can be understood within ten minutes. But it needs a total package(a really BIG one) to execute this strategy flawlessly.
 
most traders kinda swingtrade even intraday if they have any brains. (make 3-4 RT in index minis).
Trading big size and/or scalping and is not in the realm of the average trader nor should it be. Why? Because for large sums of money i.e. accounts over $100,000 your risk management would have to be different. If I lose a $10,000 account I can always make it back. If I lose a $100,000 account it may never happen in my lifetime that I can create that cash again (if it is most of my disposable money). So all this big talk of quad monitors and wizbang toys remind me of the poor sap who needs the fastest car to compensate for his lack of sexual endowment. Don't get me wrong some people can trade big and they are only happy when they pay lots of commissions and scalp 20-50 lots. If you are a millionaire you can do that. I always wonder how many are on ET a true big swinging dick traders or just like to talk big. I knew very very rich guys on the floor who traded one lots most of the time. I mean these were full exchange members with a house paid in Winetka for cash and various other investments... So go figure.

If your personality (or lackof) demands to trade BIG, you better do it with OTP (Other People's Money) so when you blow out you do not blow out your family cash. God bless the prop firms :cool:
 
Brokerboy,
Currently I trade ag/meat spreads (last 9 months) and swing traded stocks (ETFs) for 20+ years for my IRA and 401K.
I also daytraded scalped and found the experience eye opening in terms of who makes out in a prop deal. Also traded on the floor for a short time. +traded clients money also as a broker. Satisfied?

Ramirez,
How much is the prophet backfill deal?
Quote from brokerboy:

andrasnm do you trade? have you ever traded and made money?
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Quote from andrasnm:

Brokerboy,
Currently I trade ag/meat spreads (last 9 months) and swing traded stocks (ETFs) for 20+ years for my IRA and 401K.
I also daytraded scalped and found the experience eye opening in terms of who makes out in a prop deal. Also traded on the floor for a short time. +traded clients money also as a broker. Satisfied?

Ramirez,
How much is the prophet backfill deal?
More...

did you make money daytrading? i ask because i think you have a bias view. my impression is you don't think daytraders make money. its not a easy business but people do make money and if paying for something helps why not do it.
 
brokerboy never mind what I did in 1992 and if I made out ok or not. Worry about your own success. Do you make money? I think it is possible to make money in Dt so I am not bias. I just see these young guys get all gung ho and spend on hardware, dual connections and other crap to daytrade a $5-7K account for eminis. I am a registered futures broker by the way. So I see these pathetic suckers day in day out in CA.
Just for your info I used to pay $1500/mo desk fee in NYC to trade listed and I had days when I made $10,000 and I had months when I had a $80,000 month scalping. But that was before decimalization.


Quote from brokerboy:

did you make money daytrading? i ask because i think you have a bias view. my impression is you don't think daytraders make money. its not a easy business but people do make money and if paying for something helps why not do it.
More...
 
Love the irony of someone who doesn't even know the terms of their quote service lecturing people on having "brainz" and telling them what tools are and aren't necessary.

Very amusing thread.

Please don't stop.
 
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