Why Our Mission In Afghanistan Is Doomed

Quote from Barth Vader:

I would suggest that he is attempting to govern from the middle of his "progressive" base, not the middle of the macro political spectrum. The ire heaped upon the "blue dogs" over their concerns on spending and the Obama/Pelosi/Reid power grab would be my offer of evidence.

The 'blue dogs' are simply Republicans in Democrat clothing. We're gunning for them now starting Rep. Cooper who represents the 5th District in TN. Others will follow.

We're (Progressives) are at the point now that we would rather have Republicans in office than weak-willed Democrats. At least the Republicans will sow the seeds of their own defeat by pushing their totally off-the-wall policies.
 
Quote from RangeBar:



We're (Progressives)



You can get progressively worse you know.. :D


"Progressives" seem to forget that, kind of like the trader that forgets you can lose money also!
 
Quote from RangeBar:

The 'blue dogs' are simply Republicans in Democrat clothing. We're gunning for them now starting Rep. Cooper who represents the 5th District in TN. Others will follow.

We're (Progressives) are at the point now that we would rather have Republicans in office than weak-willed Democrats. At least the Republicans will sow the seeds of their own defeat by pushing their totally off-the-wall policies.

Blue dogs was a specific policy set by Raul Emanuel. Under the guise of diversity he sought many ex-military conservative new faces. He only ran these new candidates in right leaning districts, many won.
This strategy allowed the democrats to gain good majorities ,win all the committee seats in congress and control the agenda in Washington. But in no way are these automatic party votes. So Raul sold out to the devil to win majorities.

"Progressives are Liberals to ashamed to call themselves Liberals"
 
Quote from RangeBar:

We're (Progressives) are at the point now that we would rather have Republicans in office than weak-willed Democrats. At least the Republicans will sow the seeds of their own defeat by pushing their totally off-the-wall policies.


I understand that political opinion and bias is akin to certain bodily orifices......we all have them, and we tend to judge our own personal orifice with greater esteem than anothers. With that said, your statement is a bit revealing.

The Democratic party, which in my opinion is populated (at least at the federal office-holder level) by a majority of "progressives"/socialists and a few out and out marxists, has the majority (with absolutely no legislative need for the Republicans).............and yet to date seem horror struck to proceed on the Obama / progressive agenda.

Why is this?

Could it be that even radical and committed ideologues' like Obama, Pelosi, Reid (although that may be granting Reid more credit than his intellect deserves!), Frank, Waxman, Conyers and the like, can sense the vast center-right true majority of the citizenry murmuring about 2010 ?

What we are witnessing, in my opinion, is the traditional shortcoming of the American "progressive"; Very well capable of shouting at the ruling party, but impotent and dumb-founded when placed on the seat of leadership.

How the Obama shaped Democratic party "deals" with the blue dogs, will seal the fate of this surge of the socialist agenda as it is currently revealed. Discard the blue dogs at your own peril.
 
"Along with conservative commentators Pat Buchanan and George Will, I have concluded our mission in Aghanistan is doomed and we should withdraw."

So George Will and Pat Buchanan now make it right to declare Bush's fuckup in Afghanistan fits with your view of the world?

LOL!!!

You have been one of the most consistent Bush apologist known to man, said nothing about Bush dropping the ball with capturing Bin Laden when Bush set his sights on Iraq...so nearly 8 years later you got it figured out?

Man, can you give a single reason at all, any reason at all, why your judgment should have any value?

You made horrible judgments in defending Bush and his wars, and now you got it figured out...and it is all Obama's fault?

Oh geez, you are one brainless half wit...

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Along with conservative commentators Pat Buchanan and George Will, I have concluded our mission in Aghanistan is doomed and we should withdraw. This article about Camp Keating, a remote outpost which was recently attcked and nearly overrun, makes it clear why we cannot hope to win and why it is immoral to continue to expose our troops to death. In short, our rules of engagement are a joke, apparently prompted more by concerns about politcal correctness and media relations than such factors as winning or protecting troops.

I had previosuly read complaints that troops can only fire at insurgents they see firing at them. So if, for example, they are firing from within a house, our troops cannot return fire because of the possibility that civilians are inside the house. Now we learn that mosques are totally off limits, so they are being used as armories for insurgents. obviously the local muslim clerics and everyone in the village know what is going on, yet we treat them like innocent civilians.

Fight to win or get out. Those are the only acceptable choices. I'd have a lot meor respect for the republican pols if they would get on board and stop supporting the sort of sappy nation-building they rightly criticized when Clinton tried it.

*******************************************
from an article at http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/afghanistan-attack-kills-us-soldiers/Story?id=8759747&page=2 :


According to an American who has consulted with U.S. forces on their deployment into Nuristan, the effort in the north can only be seen as a failure.

"What have we done there in the last three, four years," he said. "We didn't gain anything. We weren't able to open the road up or make the area secure.

Despite the inherent physical vulnerabilities of Camp Keating, until this weekend, the base had suffered no casualties from hostile fire. The base itself was named after Lieutenant Benjamin Keating, who was killed in vehicle accident nearby in Nov. 2006.

But on Saturday, a force of as many as 300 insurgents attacked the vulnerable base in what the military has termed a "complex" attack that began in a neighboring village mosque. According to an Afghan translator for American forces in Nuristan, the village mosque was used to store the weapons and ammunition used in the attack. The rules of engagement generally prevent U.S. forces from searching or attacking Afghan mosques.

According to the Afghan translator, most of the insurgents were local. Eastern Nuristan has long been filled by the insurgent group led by former mujahedeen leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, called Hezb-e-Islami. U.S. officials believe that Hekmatyar is hiding in Pakistan, and helps coordinate insurgent attacks throughout eastern Afghanistan.
 
Was anyone more scorched earth than the "evil empire" of the Soviet Union?

Yet their policy of being tough failed in Afghanistan.

In fact if you were a student of history, rather than living with your head up Rush Limbaugh's asshole, you would know that no one in history has ever done a decent job of nation building and/or conquering the shit hole that is Afghanistan...

You are a dope of the greatest magnitude...

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I think the whole counter-insurgency strategy is flawed. Somehow if we shower enough goodies on these people in the form of roads, schools, dams, etc they are supposed to reject their religion and culture and support a corrupt central government that exploits and abuses them almost as badly as the taliban. Has it ever worked anywhere?

We need only go into pretty much any urban area of the US to prove that such an approach will not work. For example, the Washington Post has been reporting on a horrifying situation at an inner city academy that attempts to foster excellence in education in a city that spends more than any other city per student but has abysmal results. Every day its students are assaulted by neighborhood gangs as they leave the school grounds. Police and metro officials do little to protect them. We can never pour as much money into afghanistan as we do into these inner cities, yet we make little progress. Their residents act like animals in the jungle.

Our mistake in afghanistan was to ignore its history as a tribal society with a minimalist central government. We should have focused our efforts on arming and training tribal leaders and regional warlords, and let them sort out the central government. Instead, we tried to impose a top-down solution in the form of a strong central government and "democracy." That barely functions in the US. It had no chance in a country where government officials use their positions to settle tribal grievances and graft.

I suppose obama will delay leaving afhganistan until just before the 2012 elections, then grandly announce he has achieved victory and bring the troops home. He'll no doubt win his second Nobel Peace Prize. The taliban or someone worse will be in charge within six months.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Was anyone more scorched earth than the "evil empire" of the Soviet Union?
Yet their policy of being tough failed in Afghanistan.
In fact if you were a student of history, , you would know that no one in history has ever done a decent job of nation building and/or conquering the shit hole that is Afghanistan...
The USA rebuilt Europe and Japan...We go in destroy the threat then establish institutions to provide for self rule and economic growth.
The Soviets set up puppet governments and maintain central planning from Moscow. The USA only wants more countries to join the global economy and to support the view we have for the world. That view is basic freedoms and some choice in government.

Most of the resistance is from the Taliban. I am sure the people of Afghanistan are also against the Taliban.
 
Strawman you Fox News watching idiot.

The issue is not Europe or Japan mowron...those areas of the world were and are completely different cultures.

Study history...please.

My God, learn how to make a valid logical argument, get off the RNC bullshit agenda...

If the people of Iraq and Afghanistan truly want the type of culture we have, they will make it happen...we can't do it for them.

What is so completely hypocritical and pompous and self absorbed is the right wing who argues against helping Americans who need help, claiming that they have to earn it, yet are thinking they can form other cultures in our own image?

Get off the God damn the USA is God complex...

Quote from Mercor:

The USA rebuilt Europe and Japan...We go in destroy the threat then establish institutions to provide for self rule and economic growth.
The Soviets set up puppet governments and maintain central planning from Moscow. The USA only wants more countries to join the global economy and to support the view we have for the world. That view is basic freedoms and some choice in government.

Most of the resistance is from the Taliban. I am sure the people of Afghanistan are also against the Taliban.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:


The issue is not Europe or Japan mowron...those areas of the world were and are completely different cultures.

If the people of Iraq and Afghanistan truly want the type of culture we have, they will make it happen...we can't do it for them.

Calm down, boy.
The USA is not trying to force our culture on Afghanistan. We feel that people are born with inalienable rights and have a natural drive for freedom. Government needs to allow the natural drive of humans for freedom to move forward. Americans know how to do this.
The Japanese and German civilians and soldiers supported and did horrendous acts during the wars. We helped them set up a civil government with western values of individual freedoms and with their own culture did very well. No reason Islam culture cant do as well
 
"We feel that people are born with inalienable rights and have a natural drive for freedom."

We push our values on others, just like Christians push their values on others, just like Muslims push their values on others...

If they want it bad enough, they will make it happen for themselves...

We are wrong to push our culture and values on others...

Your Japan and Europe are a strawman argument.

What is it son, are you just too dense to understand that?

Quote from Mercor:

Calm down, boy.
The USA is not trying to force our culture on Afghanistan. We feel that people are born with inalienable rights and have a natural drive for freedom. Government needs to allow the natural drive of humans for freedom to move forward. Americans know how to do this.
The Japanese and German civilians and soldiers supported and did horrendous acts during the wars. We helped them set up a civil government with western values of individual freedoms and with their own culture did very well. No reason Islam culture cant do as well
 
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