these guys have a license to steal,, they are such crooks,,,,, it has never been fair or orderly... in fact,, try getting limit order protection,, that is just a joke,,,,, they don't even represent your order in the market place,,if they do it is to make the market look weak or strong......... trade the sp minis,, that is what I do,,, all electronic,, no bullshit... all the fills are like auto-fills. hit the button and your in,, no specialist tricks,,,,,,, I cannot wait until ARCA and the PACIFIC exchange kick NYSE ass.
Why NYSE market orders SUCK
- Thread starter axeman
- Start date
Maybe, but all quotes from the specialist are supposed to be bona fide. If he has no intention of honoring it, he should not be putting up the bid or offer in the first place. The specialist has major advantages (understatement), but with them come some responsibilities. It is his (or her) job to honor their quotes!!!
I have thought about filing a complaint with market surveillance. But Axeman does not just "feel" this happens, I (and probably most people here who've traded NYSE) can vouch that it happens AND HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!!!
He's right to a point. No, they can't trade right through your limit (although sometimes they will make a big print through you without printing you by claiming a bogus "stock ahead," even on a HUGE print, regardless if you were there forever). However, the specialist will regularly front run you by a penny if you offer limit (which they are allowed to, partly because they are not supposed to screw you if you go market), and then they'll screw you if you go market! (which they are NOT supposed to do).
Quote from LongShot:
market order with a thin stock:eek:
you handed over your wallet and said please put some money in it but instead they took money out and you are surprised? LOL
Even in fairly thick stocks its not unusual for the specialist to screw a trader with a market order, even a small one, by using the trader's market order for a trigger or print the specialist wants (ie, to trigger stops or entice people by painting the tape).
I'm not axeman (obviously), but the trade specifics could be a host of trades every freaking day.
As far as the latter suggestion, there is just no way to fight every screw one takes (which the point is that they add up, small and big) day in and day out (or minute by minute sometimes). And what is really funny is that there are times where a trader will request a price correction, even when he or she knows that the circumstances were somewhat close and the correction likely won't be granted, yet the specialist is honest enough to give one. There are far more times, however, where a trader requests a price correction on a trade where the transaction was soooo blatantly wrong, and the specialist (for practical purposes, the judge and jury) comes up with a cliche, absurd reply to deny one! There needs to be far more oversight!!
it regularly never prints. It's just pulled immediately AFTER someone goes market, then the trader is printed down, and then the bid is back to where it was in case another sucker wants to sell market. Or, the trader will sell at the bid, in which case the bid is pulled and the trader is quoted on the offer (bid becomes the offer), and the new bid is 10 cents down. The trader can then sell market, offer at the new bid (in which case this process might continue as the stock moves down), or hope that someone else will buy a stock that obviously is playing games (often times it is very sudden that a stock goes from liquid and somewhat fair to one that is impossible to get out of.
What was so fishy about the last time this happened to
me is exactly what MISSED explained.
I sent in a Market order, and in an INSTANT,
The bid dropped 10 cents, printed me, and popped
back up 10 cents. I was the ONLY print at that price.
When I say, in an instant, im talking 1-2 seconds max.
I actually suspect this was automated by the SPECs system.
They probably call it the "10 cent skim off the top auto-Spec" system.
I know market makers use auto systems, for when they
step away from their terminals. Do the SPECS have the
same thing?
peace
axeman
me is exactly what MISSED explained.
I sent in a Market order, and in an INSTANT,
The bid dropped 10 cents, printed me, and popped
back up 10 cents. I was the ONLY print at that price.
When I say, in an instant, im talking 1-2 seconds max.
I actually suspect this was automated by the SPECs system.
They probably call it the "10 cent skim off the top auto-Spec" system.
I know market makers use auto systems, for when they
step away from their terminals. Do the SPECS have the
same thing?
peace
axeman
I used to support direct access traders.
Some Day Traders insisted on day trading the NYSE. They were 90% of the problem calls during the day.
I can't fiqure out why someone would try and Day Trade on the NYSE, is it because there is a specialist and the stock won't fall out of the sky like a NASDAQ stock?
That's what I thought, I could see swing trading the NYSE, but day trading, is a flustration gig for day trader.
Maybe someday the NYSE will catch up in electronic executions, but in talking to some of the guys at the regional exchanges, they don't really want to execute for day traders, they think its a pain in the ass, LOL.
Some Day Traders insisted on day trading the NYSE. They were 90% of the problem calls during the day.
I can't fiqure out why someone would try and Day Trade on the NYSE, is it because there is a specialist and the stock won't fall out of the sky like a NASDAQ stock?
That's what I thought, I could see swing trading the NYSE, but day trading, is a flustration gig for day trader.
Maybe someday the NYSE will catch up in electronic executions, but in talking to some of the guys at the regional exchanges, they don't really want to execute for day traders, they think its a pain in the ass, LOL.