Corporate profits, market growth averages 8% or more...
Not a big deal guys, futures are fine for those who are experts in the field...just a bit different, that's all.
Don
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Why more stock daytraders than futures?
- Thread starter Nimbus
- Start date
Corporate profits, market growth averages 8% or more...
Not a big deal guys, futures are fine for those who are experts in the field...just a bit different, that's all.
Don
(opening the can of worms)
Wasn't there a million post thread about whether equity markets were zero-sum?
Wasn't there a million post thread about whether equity markets were zero-sum?
Quote from Don Bright:
Corporate profits, market growth averages 8% or more...
Not a big deal guys, futures are fine for those who are experts in the field...just a bit different, that's all.
Don
Corporate profits are irrelevant to this debate. Stock prices are defined by transactions. The only thing that can make a stock price go up is a transaction taking place at a higher price. If you ignore broker fees and commissions, all transactions are zero sum. Movements in price between transactions are also zero sum, as there are always an equal number of shares held long (the float) as there are held short (the debt incurred by the company that offered the float in the IPO.) The only thing that can throw off this balance is naked shorting, where short positions are magically invented without a corresponding long position.
-Raystonn
-Raystonn
Quote from Miragers:
Why do you think Forex is the worst one? The wide spread and your broker screwing with you?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1202653&highlight=governments#post1202653
Right. The simple short answer: <b>Always think about who your opponents are. </b>
Quote from minmike:
Let walk through this. You short a stock to me. You get interest on the money you get from the sale. I pay interest on the money I borrowed to buy the share( or I forgo interest on money that I have paid for the stock.) At this point it seems zero sum.
Stock price moves in either direction seem, pretty easy to see that is zero sum.
Dividend gets paid. Stock price drops the amount of the dividend in theory. The person who shorted the stock owes me the dividend to make up for the dividend that the company would have paid me. Seems zero sum to me.
Sorry, this isn't my area of expertise. Is there something that I am missing?
zero sum implies that for every gain someone else has to lose. in futures this is true. every position has to have someone on the other side taking a position against you.
equities for investors are not zero sum because of the value added nature of business. a farm company buys seed from the seed company and grows wheat and sells it for more than it cost to plant. the miller buys the wheat and makes flour and sells it for more than the wheat cost,the baker buys the flour and makes bread and sells it for more than the flour cost. the store buys the bread and sells it to the consumer and sells it for more than it cost. on and on it goes. each stage is adding value to the product thereby creating profits that the companies valuation and stock price will reflect.
"Right. The simple short answer: Always think about who your opponents are. "
I always thought my biggest enemy was myself. And since I'm pretty sure I'm a dumbass, how come I'm down so much this week?
Point taken about the talent involved in various mkts, but just cause she's the hottest chick in the bar doesn't mean you can't talk to her. Trading the mini's may not be as easy as trading the oil sector, but there are still enough tradeable events for somebody to put up big numbers. It always has perplexed me as to why there are no mini traders posting regularly on the P/L site (at least I can't recall). I mean someone on this friggin site must be making a good living off the mini's and willing to post it.
I always thought my biggest enemy was myself. And since I'm pretty sure I'm a dumbass, how come I'm down so much this week?
Point taken about the talent involved in various mkts, but just cause she's the hottest chick in the bar doesn't mean you can't talk to her. Trading the mini's may not be as easy as trading the oil sector, but there are still enough tradeable events for somebody to put up big numbers. It always has perplexed me as to why there are no mini traders posting regularly on the P/L site (at least I can't recall). I mean someone on this friggin site must be making a good living off the mini's and willing to post it.
Being a lifelong Chicagoan, when I thought about trading when I was younger, the first thing that came to my mind was commodities, like corn, soybeans, pork bellies, etc. Now I know that they're futures, and I know that bond stuff is bigger in Chicago, too, not stocks.
Everyone knew a cousin, or an second uncle, or best friend's brother who struck it rich in the pits and moved to the North Shore. Once in a while you'd hear about the guys who lost their shirts, but that was more rare than the success stories. Also, not to discredit stock traders, I always thought of futures and options traders as being more of a "professional", full-time thing -- you had to be if you worked on the floor. I also think it's more difficult to successfully trade derivatives. I don't know how many part-time, retail futures traders are out there (maybe quit a bit, for all I know), and I'm not sure how electronic markets are changing this whole paradigm, but that's just my two cents.
Everyone knew a cousin, or an second uncle, or best friend's brother who struck it rich in the pits and moved to the North Shore. Once in a while you'd hear about the guys who lost their shirts, but that was more rare than the success stories. Also, not to discredit stock traders, I always thought of futures and options traders as being more of a "professional", full-time thing -- you had to be if you worked on the floor. I also think it's more difficult to successfully trade derivatives. I don't know how many part-time, retail futures traders are out there (maybe quit a bit, for all I know), and I'm not sure how electronic markets are changing this whole paradigm, but that's just my two cents.