Why Jesse Livermore never managed others' money?

[Spectre2007]

this is precisely it:

1) characterize your market (active, dull)
2) avoid chop
3) make money on quick moves

the art comes in knowing when its choppy and when its going to gap..but in order to make money you need to hop on the earliest moment of a gap.

I've never read about livermore's story. But when you pointed this out, I know what his method evolved into. And its precisely what I try to do.

 

[goodfellow]

Quote from austinp:

<i>"Jesse Livermore was only a trader. He never managed others' money. Why?"</i>

Simple. He never learned how to trade. That's why his career ended abruptly

His career never ended. He traded up to the age of 63 years old. Sixty-three(63) years old was considered old for the 1940 era. autinp has no idea what he is talking about. Jesse Livermore knew how to trade. He made millions during his trading career. He owned yachts, sports cars, huge houses and thoroughbread horses. Jesse bought his wife mink coats and Jesse made sure his wife and son were financially secured with his daytrading winnings. Jesse Livermore is considered one of the best traders in the world. That is why his book is a best seller among daytraders and has been reprinted since 1939 when it was first published. He was an active trader up to the age of 63, and he started trading when he was 14 years old.

 

[FXTraderWill]

Quote from goodfellow:

His career never ended. He traded up to the age of 63 years old. Sixty-three(63) years old was considered old for the 1940 era. autinp has no idea what he is talking about. Jesse Livermore knew how to trade. He made millions during his trading career. He owned yachts, sports cars, huge houses and thoroughbread horses. Jesse bought his wife mink coats and Jesse made sure his wife and son were financially secured with his daytrading winnings. Jesse Livermore is considered one of the best traders in the world. That is why his book is a best seller among daytraders and has been reprinted since 1939 when it was first published. He was an active trader up to the age of 63, and he started trading when he was 14 years old.

Except that he blew up and lost all his non-secured funds when he died; that concludes that he never learned to trade. Risk management is the basis of trading, if you don't learn that, you don't know how to trade, you just know how to make accurate market calls and make money on them while exposing yourself to endless risk.

He never mastered his own emotions well enough not to self destruct. I think that's the core of trading; if you think he knew how to trade but not manage his self destructive impulses and that the two (trading and not self destructing) are not 100% interrelated to the point of being the same, please explain.

 

[goodfellow]

My posts disappeared?

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from austinp:

For example, I happen to believe Dan Marino was the greatest QB ever.

So far so good, but people never question Dan as a great footballplayer. But you and some others question Jesse's ability to trade.

A good later day analogy would be not Marilyn Monroe, but The Donald. It is hard to decide if he is a genius real estate mogul or just the greatest selfpromoter ever, nevertheless he has been living in great wealth, and although he and his businesses had serious downs (and bankrupcies) he is up and among the Forbes 400 richest. Would he die tomorrow when his casino is declaring bankrupcy again, wouldn't take away his accomplishments.

Anyway, I am getting tired of this thread because some people don't want to see the obvious, so I say goodbye with a possible true story, which even if a legend, typical of Jesse as a financial gentlemen:

In 1920 when he successfully cornered the cotton market and the price of cotton was sure to skyrocket, he went to Washington and met with the President and the Secretary of Agriculture. When they asked him why he cornered the market he said:

"I wanted to see, if I could."

Wilson asked him:"What would make you not to take advantage of the situation and not to push the price higher?"

"Well, just ask me,Mr. President.. I might be a speculator but I am also a patriot, and I don't want to make money to the disadvantage of my fellow countrymen."

Thus over the next few weeks Jesse slowly got ride of his huge long position in an orderly fashion and the price of cotton slowly went back where it was when he started to buy....He didn't make money on the deal...

 

[Allen3]

Quote from Pekelo:

So far so good, but people never question Dan as a great footballplayer. But you and some others question Jesse's ability to trade.

A good later day analogy would be not Marilyn Monroe, but The Donald. It is hard to decide if he is a genius real estate mogul or just the greatest selfpromoter ever, nevertheless he has been living in great wealth, and although he and his businesses had serious downs (and bankrupcies) he is up and among the Forbes 400 richest. Would he die tomorrow when his casino is declaring bankrupcy again, wouldn't take away his accomplishments.

Anyway, I am getting tired of this thread because some people don't want to see the obvious, so I say goodbye with a possible true story, which even if a legend, typical of Jesse as a financial gentlemen:

In 1920 when he successfully cornered the cotton market and the price of cotton was sure to skyrocket, he went to Washington and met with the President and the Secretary of Agriculture. When they asked him why he cornered the market he said:

"I wanted to see, if I could."

Wilson asked him:"What would make you not to take advantage of the situation and not to push the price higher?"

"Well, just ask me,Mr. President.. I might be a speculator but I am also a patriot, and I don't want to make money to the disadvantage of my fellow countrymen."

Thus over the next few weeks Jesse slowly got ride of his huge long position in an orderly fashion and the price of cotton slowly went back where it was when he started to buy....He didn't make money on the deal...

If the Donald loses his !$@#! and his money then kills himself I will concede the point!

 

[austinp]

An intriguing parallel might be James Cramer. Is he really a master trader or self-promotion wizard?

He did amass a personal fortune by trading. If we define "trader" as someone who makes all their income from the markets, that'd be Jim.

But... how much of that was pure skill on a level playing field versus how much of it came from information and sources that gave him (and would have given you) a great advantage over everyone else?

I've read the book and seen enough here to shift my stance several degrees: in my current opinion, JL showed extraordinary trader ability. How much of that was inherent = instinctive versus how much was inside detective work will always be unknown. He clearly enjoyed periods of great wealth and opulence, courtesy of financial markets. Had he mastered the inner struggle of emotional control, his story may have had a much happier ending.

Rest in peace, JL

(now retired from this thread)

 

[Wayne Gibbous]

Quote from austinp:



If everyone who ever passed thru this forum only had one moniker, what would the total "members" cumulative tally be?

I myself have never seen more than 500 viewers max present in this entire forum, regardless of time or day. We'll have a far bigger crowd than that next month at the local gun show here.

02-26-07 06:24 AM
Currently Active Users: 647
There are currently 224 members and 423 guests on the boards. |
Most users ever online was 833 on 02-22-06 at 03:07 PM.

 

[biologymajor]

Quote from FXTraderWill:

Except that he blew up and lost all his non-secured funds when he died; that concludes that he never learned to trade. Risk management is the basis of trading, if you don't learn that, you don't know how to trade, you just know how to make accurate market calls and make money on them while exposing yourself to endless risk.

He never mastered his own emotions well enough not to self destruct. I think that's the core of trading; if you think he knew how to trade but not manage his self destructive impulses and that the two (trading and not self destructing) are not 100% interrelated to the point of being the same, please explain.

That is not true. He was worth 5 million when he died. He had plenty of money when he died. His death had nothing to do with the stock market and him losing money. He was 63 years old. He had health problems.

 

[austinp]

<i>"02-26-07 06:24 AM
Currently Active Users: 647
There are currently 224 members and 423 guests on the boards. |
Most users ever online was 833 on 02-22-06 at 03:07 PM."</i>

**

<i>Post-Retirement:</i> Our small-town gun show will easily have more than 1,000 people present inside the complex at any given time. Many of them are quite wealthy... lots of millionaires in there.

647 online ET users is roughly 1% of the "membership" tallied. Where's the remaining 99% of historical members?

Same core people on a repeated topic in this thread. A few new eyes here & there, as the revolving doors spin.