Why is trading easy for some and hard for others?

[BONECRUSHER]

like Yogi [may have] said - it's 90% work, and the other half is skill

i think some people Do have a gift for certain things,
whether it be sports, chess, music [certainly not me] etc etc etc

marc

Good point. At the risk of sounding too wishy washy...let's pick something odd to compare trading to...how about...SMALL TALK. Isn't small talk easy to do? What's so difficult about casual conversation with people we don't know or hardly know? Just open your mouth and talk about the weather, kids, pets, occupation, married, or address, etc...but actually to someone's face. Easiest thing to do...right? Wrong! Some people are great at it...some people are average...some hate it and some are terrified of it. I know there's a lot of analytical and introverted types on Elite Trader that despise small conversation...some will say it's ridiculous to talk about unimportant things and so they justify their lack of human interaction to it's silliness. The reality of the truth...you suck at relating to strangers...this isn't your choice. This is your innate wiring people. Many introverted, logical, and high I.Q. types struggle with this! How can this be true? How can a conversation be so awkward for a person that is so SMART? Again...it's your innate wiring. Extroverts have the innate wiring for small talk...especially with their overall shorter pathway in their brain for speech and their need for approval. Yes, people can improve on anything...but there will be limitations depending on your natural wiring. Again, some introverts are from large verbal families and have no problem with strangers...exceptions for different reasons. Same goes for trading the markets. Some people have the gift of analyses and mathematics or the gift of spatial reasoning with charts. Some have the gift of creating order in their life and equally their financial endeavors. Some will be more disciplined and have more ability when it comes to SELF RESTRAINT. I have dissected just about everyone I know and have come to the conclusion that none of them would have a chance at being great at trading. I also can tell which ones could be profitable, but not necessarily great at trading. I don't think any of my friends or relatives have the analytical persistence to cover every angle of every problem that I do. Every time I read a thread like this, I have to wonder are we talking about trading for a living or trading for any profit because were're retired or bored? I always assume were're talking about trading excellence with the goal of earnings power for a living. Over two decades of trading through many market cycles and having to adapt to many market conditions...I will never say trading is easy...except for short periods of time it will seem like it. Traders that I can see saying trading is easy, it would be the long only swing and position traders during a bull market. For me, trading isn't easy because I'm a everyday grinder year in and year out who makes a good living...it takes a lot of work...being obsessive is necessary to make this work! A final point...although I believe trading ability is one of those skills that has a lot to do with our nature...WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO SOME BEHAVIORS THAT SABOTAGE YOUR ACCOUNT BALANCE...they've been influenced by those you've been around in the past or maybe still are around. Too many people are reckless with money in this credit card instant gratification society...they've lost site of the value of money. Sorry this is so long. Peace Out!

 

[J_Smith]

I have to disagree again, not because I want to argue, but because I know that trading can be as easy as picking your nose, which nearly every person does at some time or another!

What we have not mentioned, or, not emphasized, is that - the first part of any sound plan is to have an objective, for, without an objective one is not focused on what needs to be done, thus, time wasting and no real progress will be achieved.

This is very common stuff, which most, including ME, find it hard to do at times - the only good thing is that I know what my problems are and am continuously improving on them.

Horses for courses!

If H123 wants to backtest and automate, then that is what H123 will do.

If RN wants to use straight lines and angled lines, that is what RN will do.

If J_S wants to use booktrader and 30 sec bar chart that is what J_S will do.

No matter what we do as individuals, the fact is, no matter what we do, the outcome is still uncertain - and the only way to avoid financial ruin with uncertainty is to use strict risk management.

In summary - it's a numbers game, and no matter how you decide to play the game, unless you work out the odds, based on your objective/s, then you will be just pissing against the wind, and you might as well go off on the beer for 2.5 years like I done - btw, I am still kicking myself in the ass for having been such a thick Irish Paddy, but that is life, and slowly but surely letting go of all the silly and ridiculous thoughts, for, they are what really fuks you up when trading, not your setup or approach - that is the easy peasy bit, as it is just a numbers game!

The only thing I am missing is foxy hair

J_S

 

[Gary Mahalak]

My friend never takes a loss even though stocks he buys nosedive, he just hangs on and waits for them to return. Recently ( 6.13.2016) he bought 4k shares of TVIX and it dove down to 2$. he was down big since he was in at 3.04 and averaged down. I never thought it would jump up to 3.60 since the charts said 2.51 was resistance. He made 700$ but could have made 2k. He mentally tells himself that he dont care that its down ( but I know he worries since he is always praying ). Buy holding through down times ( he has held couple years ), he rarely takes a loss and he blasts me for using stops which cause me to lose.

 

[Sure Chap]

Are you sure chap - couldn't resist that one

Which option price?

What is over or under valued?

Options can be very tricky, especially ES options, and especially trading current week expiry - I was giving back thousands of $$ lately and stopped trading current week options - not because I was buying or selling under or over valued options, but because I was risking too much on current week hoping for larger gain, instead of going out a few weeks for the same risk but with additional time - was around the same time I mentioned trading with 1 chart

Anyway, not along the lines I was thinking - I was thinking more in terms of what might the 2 prices be that the SPX will finish between on Thu, June-16th - and how significant do these prices appear at the current SPX level?

This is not a call on where the price will finish - just a point to show exactly what your thread is about - one man's understanding is another man's nightmare!

Education is the key to success - but one needs to be very careful to whom one listen's to, as, History has shown that the educational methods employed centuries ago, which are still the basis for current day education, are flawed and biased towards the mushroom syndrome!

Had to throw that one in, as it is a very important fact.

J_S

I don't know!!! Options are deadly and are confusing.

 

[BONECRUSHER]

I have to disagree again, not because I want to argue, but because I know that trading can be as easy as picking your nose, which nearly every person does at some time or another!

What we have not mentioned, or, not emphasized, is that - the first part of any sound plan is to have an objective, for, without an objective one is not focused on what needs to be done, thus, time wasting and no real progress will be achieved.

This is very common stuff, which most, including ME, find it hard to do at times - the only good thing is that I know what my problems are and am continuously improving on them.

Horses for courses!

If H123 wants to backtest and automate, then that is what H123 will do.

If RN wants to use straight lines and angled lines, that is what RN will do.

If J_S wants to use booktrader and 30 sec bar chart that is what J_S will do.

No matter what we do as individuals, the fact is, no matter what we do, the outcome is still uncertain - and the only way to avoid financial ruin with uncertainty is to use strict risk management.

In summary - it's a numbers game, and no matter how you decide to play the game, unless you work out the odds, based on your objective/s, then you will be just pissing against the wind, and you might as well go off on the beer for 2.5 years like I done - btw, I am still kicking myself in the ass for having been such a thick Irish Paddy, but that is life, and slowly but surely letting go of all the silly and ridiculous thoughts, for, they are what really fuks you up when trading, not your setup or approach - that is the easy peasy bit, as it is just a numbers game!

The only thing I am missing is foxy hair

J_S

J SMITH...you kinda confirmed my point. I agree being objective and having an objective plan is very important...but you said you "find it hard to do at times". Don't you think if it's hard for you at times...it could be even harder for others much more often? Putting together an objective plan that works ALL THE TIME isn't easy either and if doesn't work all the time then it takes some intuition to adapt...that isn't easy either. Remember...some people are better at picking their nose than others!

 

[profitlocker]

My friend never takes a loss even though stocks he buys nosedive, he just hangs on and waits for them to return. Recently ( 6.13.2016) he bought 4k shares of TVIX and it dove down to 2$. he was down big since he was in at 3.04 and averaged down. I never thought it would jump up to 3.60 since the charts said 2.51 was resistance. He made 700$ but could have made 2k. He mentally tells himself that he dont care that its down ( but I know he worries since he is always praying ). Buy holding through down times ( he has held couple years ), he rarely takes a loss and he blasts me for using stops which cause me to lose.

Your friend is a retard

 

[BONECRUSHER]

I have to disagree again, not because I want to argue, but because I know that trading can be as easy as picking your nose, which nearly every person does at some time or another!

What we have not mentioned, or, not emphasized, is that - the first part of any sound plan is to have an objective, for, without an objective one is not focused on what needs to be done, thus, time wasting and no real progress will be achieved.

This is very common stuff, which most, including ME, find it hard to do at times - the only good thing is that I know what my problems are and am continuously improving on them.

Horses for courses!

If H123 wants to backtest and automate, then that is what H123 will do.

If RN wants to use straight lines and angled lines, that is what RN will do.

If J_S wants to use booktrader and 30 sec bar chart that is what J_S will do.

No matter what we do as individuals, the fact is, no matter what we do, the outcome is still uncertain - and the only way to avoid financial ruin with uncertainty is to use strict risk management.

In summary - it's a numbers game, and no matter how you decide to play the game, unless you work out the odds, based on your objective/s, then you will be just pissing against the wind, and you might as well go off on the beer for 2.5 years like I done - btw, I am still kicking myself in the ass for having been such a thick Irish Paddy, but that is life, and slowly but surely letting go of all the silly and ridiculous thoughts, for, they are what really fuks you up when trading, not your setup or approach - that is the easy peasy bit, as it is just a numbers game!

The only thing I am missing is foxy hair

J_S

J SMITH...another analogy for you...just for a different perspective. Why is investing easy for some and hard for others? My father thinks investing is easy and simple and quite effective. He has the personality type that is very disciplined and practical in all his endeavors (his innate wiring). He looks at most investors as ridiculous and irrational . Why? He dollar cost averaged every week into a selection of growth mutual funds for decades (reinvesting all dividends). He knew that the market goes up a lot over long periods of time and stayed fully invested through many market crashes...he still holds these mutual funds to this day...he's a rich man. He believed trying to time the market was for fools . He believed fools don't take advantage of such obvious concepts as saving money and putting money in the market regularly for excellent long term market returns. Think about his part in this wealth generating process...VERY PASSIVE! So, why is it so hard for most people to do it this way? These are well known investing principles that go way back. He was doing this well before 401k's were created. The only way most people can hopefully invest this way is through 401k accounts setup for them in a way they CAN'T NOT DO IT...and yet so many people don't utilize these accounts enough anyways...or they pull money out with penalties. If you look at investing in this perspective...sounds extremely easy, but many people suck at it! Why is it so easy and yet so hard to invest with ease ? Investing is so simple and easy that I expect most people on Elite Trader to have a decent size nest egg built up! Wishful thinking . Innate wiring has a lot to do with it. Why did one brother and myself emulate my father and two other brothers had to live in the moment and blow all their money (their innate wiring)? Instead of buying toys with all of my money, I invested much of it. I could see a benefit even if it was a long way off (my innate wiring). My two brothers couldn't see consequences past today...and they're not the only ones...many friends are terrible with money . My two brothers have to live for now...they're both right brained...both have always been disorganized with financial affairs, but they're very outgoing and fun to be around...they have exceptional mechanical ability (I don't). How many people on Elite Trader are or have taken maximum advantage of the SIMPLE principles my father used for so long? I bet a small percentage. Has J SMITH taken advantage of these concepts? My point is...just because it's easy doesn't mean people will EVER be able to do it..so that means it isn't so easy after all! It should be common sense...but it isn't. If trading is so easy for so many of you out there...just think how much richer you would be with investing...since it's even more simple . So, what is easier...trading or long term investing with dollar cost averaging, and which one will make you rich with more certainty...which one is most ignored by Elite Trading members ...which one should be common sense? Investing is! My personal opinion... trading is much more difficult than investing, but way more lucrative!The answer to why trading is easier for some but not for others can be found with the same question about simple investing...they don't have the wiring to follow through with it...just like my two brothers!

 

[J_Smith]

J SMITH...another analogy for you...just for a different perspective. Why is investing easy for some and hard for others? My father thinks investing is easy and simple and quite effective. He has the personality type that is very disciplined and practical in all his endeavors (his innate wiring). He looks at most investors as ridiculous and irrational . Why? He dollar cost averaged every week into a selection of growth mutual funds for decades (reinvesting all dividends). He knew that the market goes up a lot over long periods of time and stayed fully invested through many market crashes...he still holds these mutual funds to this day...he's a rich man. He believed trying to time the market was for fools . He believed fools don't take advantage of such obvious concepts as saving money and putting money in the market regularly for excellent long term market returns. Think about his part in this wealth generating process...VERY PASSIVE! So, why is it so hard for most people to do it this way? These are well known investing principles that go way back. He was doing this well before 401k's were created. The only way most people can hopefully invest this way is through 401k accounts setup for them in a way they CAN'T NOT DO IT...and yet so many people don't utilize these accounts enough anyways...or they pull money out with penalties. If you look at investing in this perspective...sounds extremely easy, but many people suck at it! Why is it so easy and yet so hard to invest with ease ? Investing is so simple and easy that I expect most people on Elite Trader to have a decent size nest egg built up! Wishful thinking . Innate wiring has a lot to do with it. Why did one brother and myself emulate my father and two other brothers had to live in the moment and blow all their money (their innate wiring)? Instead of buying toys with all of my money, I invested much of it. I could see a benefit even if it was a long way off (my innate wiring). My two brothers couldn't see consequences past today...and they're not the only ones...many friends are terrible with money . My two brothers have to live for now...they're both right brained...both have always been disorganized with financial affairs, but they're very outgoing and fun to be around...they have exceptional mechanical ability (I don't). How many people on Elite Trader are or have taken maximum advantage of the SIMPLE principles my father used for so long? I bet a small percentage. Has J SMITH taken advantage of these concepts? My point is...just because it's easy doesn't mean people will EVER be able to do it..so that means it isn't so easy after all! It should be common sense...but it isn't. If trading is so easy for so many of you out there...just think how much richer you would be with investing...since it's even more simple . So, what is easier...trading or long term investing with dollar cost averaging, and which one will make you rich with more certainty...which one is most ignored by Elite Trading members ...which one should be common sense? Investing is! My personal opinion... trading is much more difficult than investing, but way more lucrative!The answer to why trading is easier for some but not for others can be found with the same question about simple investing...they don't have the wiring to follow through with it...just like my two brothers!

Long post, but overall you are correct, and to understand why requires exposure to risking money - winning and losing.

In summary, the best way is to do both - use daytrading to make your bread and butter, and invest the profits for larger gains, which your Father is 1000% correct - this is how the big money is made, and, with predominantly long positions, for a valid reason, called....economies!

Your brothers are what we call in Paddy Land...egits

It all starts with frugality, and I take my hat off to your Father for teaching some of his siblings this very important fact of life

J_S

 

[jinxu]

As the title says, why is trading such a personal thing? One trader can think it's easy as cake, another trader for the life if him will never be able to do it. I'm still trying to get the hang of it even after all these years. It feels like you get it, then there's always a degree of uncertainty, doubt.

Was just passing by. Trading is a skill. Some people have skill. Some people don't. It's the same as with everything else. Why are some people good at math while others aren't? It's a combination of talent, skill, experience, and knowledge.

 

[J_Smith]

One other very important point worth pondering on, and that is, most think, just because they stumbled across some information that "appeals" to them, that they now actually know something of real value - big mistake!

Like your Father, there is no easy way to make money - it requires dedication, planning, and above all elses, action!

Most people on these sites talk out their arses - I can spot an egit a mile away, for the minute he opens his mouth he shows exactly what he does, and does not know!

In another thread, and no disrespect, just stating facts, a person is posting scalping on NQ on youtube, but, he is so blinded by the idiotic information he has stumbled upon, he fails to see that what he is doing is being sucked into trading, with what he perceives to be a "logical method" - there is more logic in a banana!

The majority of so called "traders" are egits, and it is best to think like your Father, for, he is indeed a wise man - most people are fools, just the way it is, and this is mainly due to the idiotic archaic educational methods still used to this present day!

A fool and his money, will always be easily parted.

J_S