Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious?

[MrScalper]

I'm drawn to the simpler things discussed in this thread, or the more obscure ideas, as the typical TA is something I've been bored with for years now. So this area interests me, and will be one I'll continue to think about this picture for a bit. So my preliminary thoughts are the following:

If I were to attempt to pick out areas that are obviously different, it's simply when candles have a large portion of their construction being made up of wicks. It just looks different. This may not be the key point about their differences? But visually, its what I see initially.

I've circled a few areas where I think the charts just 'look' different, or present a different feel.

But I suspect that's not it. I think it's something LARGER that happens. I.e., super wide ranges that get created.

Yes.. candles can be very appealing at times.. especially when the wicks stand out and show consolidations or DT's and DB's..BUT..unless what you look at is actually helping you make money..which also means not losing profits back..then they really are of no use!

The best way is the way that works best.. meaning better trading results from trading decisions based on chart interpretations..plain and simple.

No good kidding yourself if not working..and no matter how hard one tries to "make it work"..it will not work if you do not understand it..how can it be otherwise!

 

[MrScalper]

That's a funny, or strange, coincidence...I see 1111 and 777 alot -- for years (this reply kind of belongs in the Spiritual and Religion forum, I guess)

I've been seeing it...right around when I started trading around 2009/2010'ish -- it's like a divine sign...this is my calling,

So what is your divine answer to the question

 

[Pelt]

Yes.. candles can be very appealing at times.. especially when the wicks stand out and show consolidations or DT's and DB's..BUT..unless what you look at is actually helping you make money..which also means not losing profits back..then they really are of no use!

I don't think either one is more 'appealing' at this point. OBVIOUSLY, as I don't know what others may know?

Zoomed out far enough, they both look exactly the same.

When I mentioned the areas I circled in the chart, I wasn't suggesting that candles show any more/better info than bars do(although as you mention they may show congestion in a way that bars do not).

I was just noting that, VISUALLY those areas look different to me. Not even necessarily due to the congestion, but just the very nature of how a candle is constructed. While zoomed in close enough, the body of the candle, just overshadows all of the other price activity that occurred b/c it is so wide and shaded in. Where a bar doesn't do this. As all bars have the same visual 'look' to them as there is nothing that OVERSHADOWS any portion of the bar's construction.

The best way is the way that works best.. meaning better trading results from trading decisions based on chart interpretations..plain and simple.

No good kidding yourself if not working..and no matter how hard one tries to "make it work"..it will not work if you do not understand it..how can it be otherwise!

Yes, plain and simple, what matters is what works.

In attempts to understand "What I do not understand," I'm trying to think about what is different between a candle and bar that would make the perception of information different. What is required to begin seeing these differences?

Is it a pattern of thought? Is it luck? Is it a hard look at the visual differences between the two as I have been attempting to do? Does someone flat-out have to point it out for it to be seen?

 

[_eug_]

Just spend a few weeks looking at each and see which you like better.

 

[Pelt]

Doesn't really much matter which I like better.

 

[MrScalper]

Does someone flat-out have to point it out for it to be seen?

Well..to be honest..Yes!

Btw..I am not trying to send people off in search of a holy grail..you asked..and I replied.

There is one thing that I will never show anyone else..why..simple..because I promised..and I always keep my word!

There are some other things that are part of well know TA..but when isolated and used in a certain way can be very good at assisting with entry and exit decisions!

I will give you a hint of one such item that I consider worth looking at in a slightly different way.

Take the $TICK..everyone knows that when the tick goes extremes..as in around +1200 or -1200 areas..a pending reversal might be on the way..but might not be right away of course..as extremes can and do continue at certain times..so..what about the rest of the $TICK chart..does that not matter at all..and what when we have days when tick does not go above 600..or below 800..what do we do then..sit back and wait for extreme ticks..which might or might not happen..today..tomorrow..or even next week!!

 

[Pelt]

...I will give you a hint of one such item that I consider worth looking at in a slightly different way.

Take the $TICK..everyone knows that when the tick goes extremes..as in around +1200 or -1200 areas..a pending reversal might be on the way..but might not be right away of course..as extremes can and do continue at certain times..so..what about the rest of the $TICK chart..does that not matter at all..and what when we have days when tick does not go above 600..or below 800..what do we do then..sit back and wait for extreme ticks..which might or might not happen..today..tomorrow..or even next week!!

Hmmm...

Could you re-word that last paragraph please? Kinda confused by which portions of the ellipses are questions and which are statements?

Are you saying that simply the typical way to look @ $TICK is just to monitor extremes, and expect a reversal at some point? And that on days when extremes don't occur (relative to numbers), that there are other uses besides monitoring extremes on $TICK charts? If this is the case, on days where the $TICK does reach extremes, do you care about the actual number of the $TICK at all? Does your way of observing $TICK, or any chart for that matter concern itself with the actual number?

I imagine the $TICK chart itself isn't important. You are just giving a $TICK chart as an example, and an example of what people do that is typical (with a $TICK), and simply saying YOU would look at it differently?

For myself or anyone else interested, I can think of a few things one could do in absence of using actual numbers the instrument is currently sitting at. FOr your example of a $TICK chart, one could monitor swings that occur, a % change... or few different things you could do with either averages, or deviations about a mean.

In thinking, I wonder how this relates to the bars themselves, and the picture they show?

 

[MrScalper]

Tick chart is very important..but in relation to what you are doing..more important for daytrading than investing (holding)..as mentioned..the more things that line up .the better the odds of the trade moving in your favor quickly..the better you get at timing..the less you lose..the less you lose..the more you can make!

 

[Ed48]

Sorry, this is a bit off topic but I'm curious to know why people get into trading. What's the motivation/objective/goal?
1) grow your capital/get rich
2) quit the 9-5 job and live off trading profits
3) other reason?

It's just that trading must be one of the hardest ways there is to make money. Very few traders prosper. The odds of a person succeeding in this game are extremely low.

I know other people, like me, who've blown accounts and many others who've carried on trading for years with very little success. We would all have been vastly better off just doing buy & hold passive investing.

 

[MrScalper]

Sorry, this is a bit off topic but I'm curious to know why people get into trading. What's the motivation/objective/goal?
1) grow your capital/get rich
2) quit the 9-5 job and live off trading profits
3) other reason?

It's just that trading must be one of the hardest ways there is to make money. Very few traders prosper. The odds of a person succeeding in this game are extremely low.

I know other people, like me, who've blown accounts and many others who've carried on trading for years with very little success. We would all have been vastly better off just doing buy & hold passive investing.

Will be as varied as there are traders..too much money..gambling addiction..gullible..stupid ..easily led..unable to distinguish between reality and day dreaming.

As to your buy and hold approach, yes..much better off