Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious?

[J_Smith]

This is what I mean about lower time frame, as it was showing possible reversal sign, which happened, but the higher timeframes are still up, so it all depends on your risk/reward ratio, and what timeframe you have decided to trade.

Still up for now on higher, so would not change my mind yet.

J_S

 

[The Obvious]

OS, what is it with you and The Obvious

Well, I thought that was what this whole thread was about.

Lately, though, unless I'm mistaken, it seems to have veered off into textbook/mainstream think.

 

[DDR]

I need to clarify some thing, when I said 300K per year J_S quantified this and broke it down into daily gains. I must have been thinking too quick for my own good because... I am referring to trades overall throughout the year consisting of swing and some day trades. Thus only trading when market conditions present (by my definition). In the prior post this is a day trading method I use to use. But day trading for me is not some thing I do as much anymore. I look for swings I feel a better use of my time and in fact my money working for me as opposed to sitting there for hours. I might include other charts of what I look for in swing identification. but I don;t want to go off topic of this thread. I will include if others want to see it

 

[wrbtrader]

I like the fact that you think 300K is "possible"
That gives me hope BUT I am also well aware of the mindset and patience among other things that one must adopt. The question is can disciplined be learned and how. Or is it a case of you either have it or you don't. I need to say I have a form of discipline in every day life but it seems trading requires a different type of. For some me included it has been the core of the struggle..

First of all, it may not be a discipline issue as you think. Thus, it may simple be how you view the markets which may be in a way that you'll have too much difficulty in being profitable or you're profitable but not reaching your goals.

Yet, if you're sure or convince you have a discipline problem...it can be learned and then self-learned but not from EliteTrader.com because there's nobody here qualified as a psychologist or behavior finance for such as those that some of the world's top trading firms works with for their employees.

Simply, if the issue for you is discipline...we as retail traders are really stuck with "self-learning" whereas the professional firms work with their employees via bringing in psychologists that specifically deal with performance, behavior finance (decision making process) and other issues.

There's a current TV series called "Billions" in which one of the characters at a professional firm is an in-house performance coach (psychologist) for their employees. Although its TV and the show is about a billionaire and his schemes to maintain his wealth and a DA lawyer trying to bring down the billionaire...a professional firm's use of a psychologist is exactly what's going on in today's markets and that particular character (her job) is modeled after real world situations.

It make sense considering pro traders are managing millions of dollars and it makes sense to why these firms wants to ensure their traders are in the right mindset and if not...they can get quick help at the firm that will enable them to get back on track whenever they get off track. Also, not all top firms have psychologists or work with behavior finance but most do (I've documented such in another thread here at ET)...as a friend that works for Credit Suisse recently told me...its a form of risk management via knowing which employees are ready for the task and which ones are not.

Once again, as a retail trader...its really self-learned but you can easily read up about this stuff online...lots of free info out there that may or may not be enough.

P.S. Most of the world's top athletes have sports psychologists to help keep them sharp or help them resolve issues that's having a negative impact on their performance.

 

[J_Smith]

Very hard for me to put it into this format as you described maybe I'm thick and I don't really know what you want to see instead I have my methodology on chart form as I am a visual person feel free to assist me in fully understanding your method or can you share yours. As per below opposite for long entry.
View attachment 161582

No DR, I meant your overall plan.

A flowchart in Visio will be fine, if you have access to Visio.

J_S

 

[J_Smith]

First of all, it may not be a discipline issue as you think. Thus, it may simple be how you view the markets which may be in a way that you'll have too much difficulty in being profitable or you're profitable but not reaching your goals.

Yet, if you're sure or convince you have a discipline problem...it can be learned and then self-learned but not from EliteTrader.com because there's nobody here qualified as a psychologist or behavior finance for such as those that some of the world's top trading firms works with for their employees.

Simply, if the issue for you is discipline...we as retail traders are really stuck with "self-learning" whereas the professional firms work with their employees via bringing in psychologists that specifically deal with performance, behavior finance (decision making process) and other issues.

There's a current TV series called "Billions" in which one of the characters at a professional firm is an in-house performance coach (psychologist) for their employees. Although its TV and the show is about a billionaire and his schemes to maintain his wealth...a professional firm's use of a psychologist is exactly what's going on in today's markets and that particular character (her job) is modeled after real world situations.

It make sense considering pro traders are managing millions of dollars and it makes sense to why these firms wants to ensure their traders are in the right mindset and if not...they can get quick help at the firm that will enable them to get back on track whenever they get off track. Also, not all top firms have psychologists or work with behavior finance but most do (I've documented such in another thread here at ET)...as a friend that works for Credit Suisse recently told me...its a form of risk management via knowing which employees are ready for the task and which ones are not.

Once again, as a retail trader...its really self-learned but you can easily read up about this stuff online...lots of free info out there that may or may not be enough.

P.S. Most of the world's top athletes have sports psychologists to help keep them sharp or help them resolve issues that's having a negative impact on their performance.

They are not trading their own money, and it is all part of the game.

Why would anyone need someone else to tell them what is best for them, for that implies there is someting wrong with the person, which means the person is not suitable for the job, which means the job pickers are not doing their job correctly.

It is all one big joke!

J_S

 

[DDR]

Yes I think jotting down my trading plan would bring more clarity.
Maybe here is the confusion in my case, I have 2 trading plans one for short term trading and one for swing trading. They are obviously very different.
With regards to the recent replies, all have made sense but what J_S RN and wrbtrader have said is where I'm heading. hopefully after looking into or getting help in these areas I can move to the next level. J_S I'll have to get back to you on this flow chart ... never heard of Visio.

 

[J_Smith]

Yes I think jotting down my trading plan would bring more clarity.
Maybe here is the confusion in my case, I have 2 trading plans one for short term trading and one for swing trading. They are obviously very different.
With regards to the recent replies, all have made sense but what J_S RN and wrbtrader have said is where I'm heading. hopefully after looking into or getting help in these areas I can move to the next level. J_S I'll have to get back to you on this flow chart ... never heard of Visio.

Microsoft Visio, but you can get many free flowchart stuff online.

Draw it with your hand, pencil and paper, for what matters is what you write down, and not how nice it looks. We are not in one if those big firms with their latest presentations, full of the new buzz words.

What a bunch of idiots, but not as stupid as the idiots who give them their hard earned money

J_S

 

[wrbtrader]

They are not trading their own money, and it is all part of the game.

Why would anyone need someone else to tell them what is best for them, for that implies there is someting wrong with the person, which means the person is not suitable for the job, which means the job pickers are not doing their job correctly.

It is all one big joke!

J_S

Yes, it is a game as RN once stated.

Yes, they have psychological evaluations prior to becoming an institutional trader or even CEO to determine if they "fit with the team". If they get into the door and something changes down the road for their employees because we all know life does change (bumps in the road)...

That's what HR departments do...they weed out the employees not suitable for the job at these firms via the initial psychological evaluation tests so that they are not hired. Then if someone has problems down the road after being hired...they are not fired. Instead, they are given help...probably helps the firms avoid lawsuits too when it comes to firing employees that are no longer able to perform their job obligation.

I think they hire those psychologist and behavior finance specialist to help them get back on track. So yeah, there comes a time when some employees are not doing their job correctly just like there comes a time when some top athletes get into a psychological rut. If that happens, that's why they hire those psychologists that specializes in getting people in the right mindset to do their job or get back on track as a top performer.

Obviously someone managing a top firm or has traders in the market with millions of dollars is not a joke to them nor is it a joke to all the pension plans in the world entrusting them to manage their money, all the investors entrusting them to manage their money and so on.

Better safe than sorry especially when something goes wrong...something always goes wrong (the last big fat finger error in the markets occurred by someone that had a mental breakdown a month earlier...someone that was one of the top performing trader at the firm...a firm that didn't involve itself with employees mental well being).

The issue is not just about the financial markets. Many do the same...top athletes, adoption agencies, schools after a traumatic event involving a student, child custody hearings, military, police, fireman, pilots of commercial airlines and hundreds of other areas in our lives. Seriously, many take this psychological mumbo jumbo stuff very seriously.

Anyways, as stated...we as retail traders...discipline is self-learned...nobody is born with it but most traders have problems with it.

 

[J_Smith]

See what I mean about taking profits when you have them with CL.

Damn, I am getting tempted now, and will look at some call options to do a small risk trade.

For now I am still not trading today, buts lets see what happens

J_S