Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious?

[ScoobyStoo]

Quote from rossky:

Thank you for reminding us that we are students - the begginer students aking very silly questions sometimes and behaving like little children trying to get what we want.

Just as annoying is to see people like you randomly poping in, telling us how silly we are, offering very little help, saying things of no real value or things that we all already know.

Why do you presume I was speaking about you? Your frustrated and angry reply speaks volumes about your state of mind. How can you expect to trade the markets successfully when a mere post on an internet forum elicits this kind of venomous response?

Quote from rossky:
Haven't you ever been an underdog, Scooby? Haven't you ever been called a Loser or spoon fed?

What people call me doesn't bother me one little bit. One thing that trading has taught me is to disregard my ego, in all aspects of life. Name calling only affects you if you have a vulnerable ego to be bruised.

Quote from rossky:
Hard to part with hard earned knowledge? - Why post at all?

I have no intention of parting with any answers. However, like the OP I know which questions must be asked in order to gain that knowledge. I am in a position to be able to help people ask the correct questions. Why do you post? To gain knowledge. What do you have to offer in exchange? Nothing. So why are you so keen to bite a hand that could potentially feed you?

Quote from rossky:
I like your analogy about the sculpture though. You have to sweat a bit to appreciate things more. And I thank God there are people with amazing hearts that have patience and desire to help. [/B]

The OP is exceptionally kind. Be in no doubt of that. I have enormous respect for them, as they are offering a genuine opportunity to some. However, your attitude is such that I doubt you will truly benefit. This thread in its original incarnation helped me enormously in making the required leap. I felt that it was time to pay it forward and help others as I was helped myself. However, given this initial response I will refrain from further participation in the thread.

 

[macattack]

Quote from The Oracle:

no XX..read the words again and think exactly what they mean!

what happens if YOU are not near the river

If one wants to get a boat ride, one must be near the river. ~Anchee Min, Becoming Madame Mao

Miss opportunity.

 

[rossky]

Quote from ScoobyStoo:

Why do you presume I was speaking about you? Your frustrated and angry reply speaks volumes about your state of mind. How can you expect to trade the markets successfully when a mere post on an internet forum elicits this kind of venomous response?



What people call me doesn't bother me one little bit. One thing that trading has taught me is to disregard my ego, in all aspects of life. Name calling only affects you if you have a vulnerable ego to be bruised.



I have no intention of parting with any answers. However, like the OP I know which questions must be asked in order to gain that knowledge. I am in a position to be able to help people ask the correct questions. Why do you post? To gain knowledge. What do you have to offer in exchange? Nothing. So why are you so keen to bite a hand that could potentially feed you?



The OP is exceptionally kind. Be in no doubt of that. I have enormous respect for them, as they are offering a genuine opportunity to some. However, your attitude is such that I doubt you will truly benefit. This thread in its original incarnation helped me enormously in making the required leap. I felt that it was time to pay it forward and help others as I was helped myself. However, given this initial response I will refrain from further participation in the thread.

Thank you for your response, Scooby.

I'm vulnerable and bitter at this time, this is true. Am I always like this? Don't we all go through stages like this in our life, maybe even several times?

This is not totally disturbed state of mind though but it allows me to focus more on what needs to be done to sort things out and easier to see where the value is.

And, just like you were partly speaking on behalf of others, I know there are people that feel like me - tired of pain and crap they are fed and want some answers.

I tell this everywhere I go that the market teaches me how to be a better person and because of the market I started to understand how some other things work in life.

Now allow me to apologize for the statements I made that you found offensive for the sake of others that are hoping for a person like you to stop in and generously share. Sincerely,

rossky

 

[baron193]

Quote from ScoobyStoo:

PA is never 'messy' as such, there is always logic in the way price behaves when the prevailing market condition is understood. True, in a fast market when the spread widens you will see transaction prices jumping around, but the significant levels are determined in exactly the same way as always. I trade the CL contract heavily and around news releases it will commonly print swings in excess of 30 ticks on timescales well under 1 second. However, it never ceases to amaze me how price will still interact with the predetermined levels in the same way.

It makes me laugh how certain people are getting frustrated because the thread originator will not divulge a step-by-step trading plan. Their infantile comments mark them out as having personality traits which are wholly unsuitable for participating successfully in the market. However, no doubt they will keep offering their opinions in this thread as they keep offering their money in the markets. It is in the very fabric of their nature and they cannot help themselves. Whilst they are an irritation in the context of this thread, understand that these traits are a necessary ingredient in the market if you are to make money.

Those of you with the potential to progress in this game will have already realised why the author is not giving you all on the answers on a plate.

Firstly, and this is a common theme in the thread, you MUST be capable of thinking for yourselves. Thanks to the education system the majority of the population are conditioned to be spoon fed. Why do you think trading books and courses are so popular? Because they offer easy answers. I rarely visit this site these days, but when I do it saddens me that everybody is rushing to find answers. It is very rarely that I see a thread where somebody has asked 'Am I asking the right questions?'. How can you hope to find meaningful answers when you don't have a clear idea what questions you are asking? This thread isn't about giving you any answers. It's about getting you to ask the right questions. The answers you then have to suss out for yourselves.

Secondly, and most importantly, if the answers were given to you then what value would you attach to them? You wouldn't have invested a drop of sweat equity in working them out. To illustrate this, consider whether you would be more bothered if you smashed a sculpture that you bought in a shop or one that you had spent months making yourself? This game is such that only a minority can win. If you think through the mechanics of it then you will realise that it MUST be this way. When you win in the market you are taking money from others. For you to continue winning those others must continue losing. There is a deep responsibility attached to knowing how to take money out the market. This is valuable information and as such must be handled with maturity and respect. Both respect for yourself for the effort you have put in to gaining it and respect for the others who are also using it. Invest two years of your life working out the questions and answers...then see if you want to give them away.



Don't tap on the aquarium!

Thank you for your answer, i do respect everything you have pointed out.
I do know what i have to do, i have known for a while now not to expect anything given to me on a platter.
It must be an awesome feeling being finaly able to succeed in the market in a consistent way, though i'll be trying my hardest to beat you at this game, my hat's off to you.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from rossky:

Thank you for your response, Scooby.

I'm vulnerable and bitter at this time, this is true. Am I always like this? Don't we all go through stages like this in our life, maybe even several times?

This is not totally disturbed state of mind though but it allows me to focus more on what needs to be done to sort things out and easier to see where the value is.

And, just like you were partly speaking on behalf of others, I know there are people that feel like me - tired of pain and crap they are fed and want some answers.

I tell this everywhere I go that the market teaches me how to be a better person and because of the market I started to understand how some other things work in life.

Now allow me to apologize for the statements I made that you found offensive for the sake of others that are hoping for a person like you to stop in and generously share. Sincerely,

rossky

Take heart. The answers are incredibly simple. Scooby dropped a big hint a few posts back, which probably went over the head of most, only because their minds aren't trained to consider the market in those terms. You have to understand the answer you're looking for could be reduced to one sentence. This thread is a 3-year long game of charades to describe a table or a chair, without using the word "table" or "chair". It's also an ego-trip, for some of those in the know. With that said, many posts in this thread are unnecessarily windy and vague, wrapped up as indispensable knowledge when they really add more confusion to the discovery process. On the one hand, for those in the know, the pontificating and misdirection protect the answers from being revealed whilst giving hints along the way. On the otherhand, they can misguide and confound outsiders with information overload, which is what you're suffering from. So in the spirit of this thread, my advice to you is this: look for the common thread in TO and TE posts. Not in regard to attitude or perspective, although those are essential. But in regard to advice on how to read the chart. How to view the chart. Focus on that. Also bear in mind, the smarter you are, the longer it takes. The answer is so simple, it's dumb. Arbitrary, but not. That's why most won't even consider it. It took me 5 years to figure it out. Just because it's simple, doesn't make it easy. Also, don't rely on people to give you the answer. Do your own work. Put in your own screentime. Try and figure it out yourself. Use that thing between your ears. Depending on your broker (haha) the answer is right infront of your face....you're just not seeing it. For many, it's simply a process of elimination, which can take years. Try everything you can think of. Don't discount anything. I had to reexamine the same idea, several times, before "getting it"... It's a spiral journey, but the answer truly exists. How bad do you want it?

 

[The Oracle]

Quote from achilles28:

Take heart. The answers are incredibly simple. Scooby dropped a big hint a few posts back, which probably went over the head of most, only because their minds aren't trained to consider the market in those terms. You have to understand the answer you're looking for could be reduced to one sentence. This thread is a 3-year long game of charades to describe a table or a chair, without using the word "table" or "chair". It's also an ego-trip, for some of those in the know. With that said, many posts in this thread are unnecessarily windy and vague, wrapped up as indispensable knowledge when they really add more confusion to the discovery process. On the one hand, for those in the know, the pontificating and misdirection protect the answers from being revealed whilst giving hints along the way. On the otherhand, they can misguide and confound outsiders with information overload, which is what you're suffering from. So in the spirit of this thread, my advice to you is this: look for the common thread in TO and TE posts. Not in regard to attitude or perspective, although those are essential. But in regard to advice on how to read the chart. How to view the chart. Focus on that. Also bear in mind, the smarter you are, the longer it takes. The answer is so simple, it's dumb. Arbitrary, but not. That's why most won't even consider it. It took me 5 years to figure it out. Just because it's simple, doesn't make it easy. Also, don't rely on people to give you the answer. Do your own work. Put in your own screentime. Try and figure it out yourself. Use that thing between your ears. Depending on your broker (haha) the answer is right infront of your face....you're just not seeing it. For many, it's simply a process of elimination, which can take years. Try everything you can think of. Don't discount anything. I had to reexamine the same idea, several times, before "getting it"... It's a spiral journey, but the answer truly exists. How bad do you want it?

now now A28..what was that about ego

there is plenty of money to go round for those who are willing..and able..to help themselves

some very good posts have just been posted..and..i would recommend that all interested in advancing their trading read them until they fully understand the meaning of same

here is something that is very true..no matter what is said by all

there are many many ways to take money out of the market..but..the best way is the way that actually works for you..so..if you are not making money it does not mean that it is not one of the ways that works..it just means..that way is not suited t you and your circumstances

many traders think that when they start making money they have found a unique way that works..this is not correct..for reasons just stated

so..as i LIKE daytrading US stocks best..that is what i am best at..but like many other traders i have also traded fx, commodities, stock options and index options..in fact..my biggest loser was trading index options..and it was the best lesson i ever learned about trading

a good friend of mine..told me a long time ago..the following

"u will never make good money trading until u have made and lost a large amount of money 3 times"

of course i laughed at him as i had learned how to trade and make money

i said in reply

"u can either do it..or u can't..it is as simple as that"

guess which one us was CORRECT

btw..if u are looking in..happy trading

 

[achilles28]

Quote from The Oracle:

now now A28..what was that about ego

there is plenty of money to go round for those who are willing..and able..to help themselves

some very good posts have just been posted..and..i would recommend that all interested in advancing their trading read them until they fully understand the meaning of same

here is something that is very true..no matter what is said by all

there are many many ways to take money out of the market..but..the best way is the way that actually works for you..so..if you are not making money it does not mean that it is not one of the ways that works..it just means..that way is not suited t you and your circumstances

many traders think that when they start making money they have found a unique way that works..this is not correct..for reasons just stated

so..as i LIKE daytrading US stocks best..that is what i am best at..but like many other traders i have also traded fx, commodities, stock options and index options..in fact..my biggest loser was trading index options..and it was the best lesson i ever learned about trading

a good friend of mine..told me a long time ago..the following

"u will never make good money trading until u have made and lost a large amount of money 3 times"

of course i laughed at him as i had learned how to trade and make money

i said in reply

"u can either do it..or u can't..it is as simple as that"

guess which one us was CORRECT

btw..if u are looking in..happy trading

All true....except the first part. I think this is my 4th post in the thread

 

[The Oracle]

Quote from baron193:

Thank you for your answer, i do respect everything you have pointed out.
I do know what i have to do, i have known for a while now not to expect anything given to me on a platter.
It must be an awesome feeling being finaly able to succeed in the market in a consistent way, though i'll be trying my hardest to beat you at this game, my hat's off to you.

B93..there is ONE thing that matters above all else when learning how to trade..and that is..u must quickly learn to distinguish between those who know what they are talking about..and those who do not

many spend years going round in circles..listening and following idiots and fools..those who speak of fibs and gann levels..pitchforks and other such mumbo jumbo..hell..some even bring the stars in the heavens into it

if u are to buy ONE thing to put in your bedroom, kitchen, study, garage..wherever the fuk u trade..then make sure it is a big MIRROR

every day before u start gambling..stand in front of the mirror..and say to the fool in front of u

"now..u dumb ass trader..are u going to make some good money today..or fukin give it away"

never be afraid to kick urself in the ass..for it will do u the world of good

also..it is not YOUR money until u have it in the BANK

we now have some posters that can help others if they ask the right questions..RN..SO and A28

hell, if we are not careful..TFF will be no more

funny thing is..u all know as much about trading as the rest of us..u just haven't sorted out the head bit yet

99.99% REMEMBER

 

[The Oracle]

Quote from macattack:

Miss opportunity.

well done MK

Lost

Opportunity

lost opportunity is the biggest enemy to a daytrader..and boy have i missed some great trades

if u are smart enough..and clever enough..the sky is the limit

go back and look at the % risk per trade and how it determines how many shares u will buy/sell for each trade

now..just think if u can perfect that so u are always risking a small amount of money when u start..so if wrong..SO WHAT..it is only buttons

but..enter perfection

now..if u can perfect ur trading so that ALL of ur losers are small..and ur winners are big multiples of ur losers..then..u are..what can be called..on the pig's back

never ever think u know it all..for..u really have to know very lttle..so why even bother!

question is..therefore

how do i perfect my trading to give me that required ratio?

i think TE covered this before..in one of his silly pdf's with a password..i will contact him and see if he still has it

 

[rossky]

Quote from achilles28:

Take heart. The answers are incredibly simple. Scooby dropped a big hint a few posts back, which probably went over the head of most, only because their minds aren't trained to consider the market in those terms. You have to understand the answer you're looking for could be reduced to one sentence. This thread is a 3-year long game of charades to describe a table or a chair, without using the word "table" or "chair". It's also an ego-trip, for some of those in the know. With that said, many posts in this thread are unnecessarily windy and vague, wrapped up as indispensable knowledge when they really add more confusion to the discovery process. On the one hand, for those in the know, the pontificating and misdirection protect the answers from being revealed whilst giving hints along the way. On the otherhand, they can misguide and confound outsiders with information overload, which is what you're suffering from. So in the spirit of this thread, my advice to you is this: look for the common thread in TO and TE posts. Not in regard to attitude or perspective, although those are essential. But in regard to advice on how to read the chart. How to view the chart. Focus on that. Also bear in mind, the smarter you are, the longer it takes. The answer is so simple, it's dumb. Arbitrary, but not. That's why most won't even consider it. It took me 5 years to figure it out. Just because it's simple, doesn't make it easy. Also, don't rely on people to give you the answer. Do your own work. Put in your own screentime. Try and figure it out yourself. Use that thing between your ears. Depending on your broker (haha) the answer is right infront of your face....you're just not seeing it. For many, it's simply a process of elimination, which can take years. Try everything you can think of. Don't discount anything. I had to reexamine the same idea, several times, before "getting it"... It's a spiral journey, but the answer truly exists. How bad do you want it?

Greetings, Achilles. Nice to meet you.

Thank you for your post - so encouraging!

Man, I want it bad! I see the market now everywhere I go! In 2004 I was introduced to it and fell in love with it right on the spot. Only three years ago I settled on the idea of trading (coincidentally when this thread started).

The elimination process is exactly what I've been through all these years. Some days I feel like I got it, some days I'm not that confident at all. Hardly smart, an average guy with above average amount of stuff on my mind.

If I were smart I would be able to test the so many ideas floating around. For example, I read in the book that a candle bar in a certain situation is a setup in both directions. Wow, I thought, that's wonderful! What if, when the probability of an extended move is high, I go both long and short, simultaneously. Then, with the profit target 1/3 I'm good, always.

It's kinda hard to talk to a book sometimes and that's the reason I'm here. Thank God there are good people, who I consider friends, that provide so much needed guidance for me! I'm an optimist and hope I will also get it soon.

Thank you for your support, Achilles. Cheers,

rossky