Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious?

rajesheck · Jan 31, 2017

dontrader01 said:
Hi Wtfauoa,

What is the importance of the first 30 mins of market open ?
Why not say 60 mins or first 15mins ?
Why the first 30mins ?

I would say between 5 to 60 minutes from the market open time there will be mostly a signal, based on price action "against" time, which we call as momentum. In my experience the signal generated in this period is highly successful, may be because of the support from the third dimension, volume, which is generally more in the market open hour, plus the fourth dimension, fresh morning mind of the day trader.

Price momentum is two dimensional compared to time or price action which are single dimensions, and decisions based on the momentum may be more solid than just time or price action.

Higher the momentum (more price action in less time), greater must be the time frame for a safer and more successful bet.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/breakout-strategy-help.305641/page-2#post-4385322

From momentum trading perspective, apart from the early market open time, there can be signals anytime during the day trading.

wtfauoa · Feb 1, 2017

dontrader01 said:
Hi Wtfauoa,

What is the importance of the first 30 mins of market open ?
Why not say 60 mins or first 15mins ?
Why the first 30mins ?

Simple really, if you have been round long enough to filter thru all the bull and hype.

The first 30 min "usually" has increased volatility, which of course means movement in both directions. Also, 10:00 is usually considered a major time, and at times price can indeed make a sudden move just after 10:00, but things have changed slightly over the last decade.

Of course every day is different, and at times there can be some great moves at any time, but, in general, on "normal" days, the first 30 min can offer far greater opportunities than any other time.

I will say though, not applicable to all markets!

wtfauoa · Feb 1, 2017

rajesheck said:
I would say between 5 to 60 minutes from the market open time there will be mostly a signal, based on price action "against" time, which we call as momentum. In my experience the signal generated in this period is highly successful, may be because of the support from the third dimension, volume, which is generally more in the market open hour, plus the fourth dimension, fresh morning mind of the day trader.

Price momentum is two dimensional compared to time or price action which are single dimensions, and decisions based on the momentum may be more solid than just time or price action.

Higher the momentum (more price action in less time), greater must be the time frame for a safer and more successful bet.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/breakout-strategy-help.305641/page-2#post-4385322

From momentum trading perspective, apart from the early market open time, there can be signals anytime during the day trading.

And what pray do you mean by a "signal"?
Not some form of TA drawn on the chart I hope, as for a minute there it looked like you might know a little bit.

rajesheck · Feb 1, 2017

wtfauoa said:
And what pray do you mean by a "signal"?
Not some form of TA drawn on the chart I hope, as for a minute there it looked like you might know a little bit.

Technical charts (eg. moving averages) are not my cup of tea : https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/day-trading-basics.305348/page-7#post-4383960

And technical charts are a learning curve in this analytical world. So I give all due respect to trading based on technical charts.

Next comes price action strategies. That is also part of learning curve and a better way to trade than using technical charts, still I wont say a very professional approach.

I suggest simple momentum trading strategy as it aligns well with the trial and error psychology of trend trading.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/day-trading-basics.305348/page-4#post-4380964

wtfauoa · Feb 1, 2017

rajesheck said:
Technical charts (eg. moving averages) are not my cup of tea : https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/day-trading-basics.305348/page-7#post-4383960

And technical charts are a learning curve in this analytical world. So I give all due respect to trading based on technical charts.

Next comes price action strategies. That is also part of learning curve and a better way to trade than using technical charts, still I wont say a very professional approach.

I suggest simple momentum trading strategy as it aligns well with the trial and error psychology of trend trading.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/day-trading-basics.305348/page-4#post-4380964

You can forget about posting links, as waste of time. If you are a full-time daytrader, what symbols do you trade and when (times of day) do you trade them. A simple question.

algofy · Feb 1, 2017

wtfauoa said:
You can forget about posting links, as waste of time. If you are a full-time daytrader, what symbols do you trade and when (times of day) do you trade them. A simple question.

Same question back at you. Are YOU a full time daytrader and what symbols do YOU trade?

rajesheck · Feb 1, 2017

wtfauoa said:
You can forget about posting links, as waste of time. If you are a full-time daytrader, what symbols do you trade and when (times of day) do you trade them. A simple question.

I do day trading using a simple momentum strategy, which is a general one and can be applied on any symbol. BTW I trade full time on Index options. Regarding timing, anytime i find my trading signals.

When you say links are waste of time, I assume that you are not assuming links are waste of time for every one here, like a moderator.

algofy · Feb 1, 2017

rajesheck said:
When you say links are waste of time, I assume that you are not assuming links are waste of time for every one here.

He probably does believe ALL links are a waste of time.

dontrader01 · Feb 1, 2017

wtfauoa said:
Simple really, if you have been round long enough to filter thru all the bull and hype.

The first 30 min "usually" has increased volatility, which of course means movement in both directions. Also, 10:00 is usually considered a major time, and at times price can indeed make a sudden move just after 10:00, but things have changed slightly over the last decade.

Of course every day is different, and at times there can be some great moves at any time, but, in general, on "normal" days, the first 30 min can offer far greater opportunities than any other time.

I will say though, not applicable to all markets!

I agree everyday is different.

Do you believe the way you enter will change over time ?
Do you believe your way of trading will still work for you in say 20 years from now ?

On another note.
What are your thoughts on Gaps ?
What are your thoughts on the previous days Value area ?

wtfauoa · Feb 2, 2017

dontrader01 said:
I agree everyday is different.

Do you believe the way you enter will change over time ?
Do you believe your way of trading will still work for you in say 20 years from now ?

On another note.
What are your thoughts on Gaps ?
What are your thoughts on the previous days Value area ?

You are very inquisitive

The way I enter and exit will never change, just the price at which same happens.

The way I trade will always work, in 20 years from now and more than likely in 200 years from now.

Gaps offer very good trading opportunities.

The value area is over rated as per market profile technique, but I have come across an individuals take on trading the value area that made perfect sense to me in relation to short term trading.

Anything else