Why is the Futures market supposedly more difficult?

Quote from Rhody Trader:

Actually, I don't think it's any more or less easy to lose money in futures vs stocks. That's all strategy dependent...

That's the answer...difficulty of one versus the other (stocks versus futures) is completely strategy dependent.

I've traded both at the same time and finally went 100% futures many years ago because it just suited my personality and my lifestlye.

Thus, with all the different types of future trading instruments and different stocks...

Trying to determine why one is more difficulty than the other is ridiculous.

We may as well be having an in-depth conversation about why situps is more difficult than pushups.

NihabaAshi
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:


Trying to determine why one is more difficulty than the other is ridiculous.

We may as well be having an in-depth conversation about why situps is more difficult than pushups.

NihabaAshi
I agree with your comment regarding the different products to trade. I also believe that comparing scalping to swing trading or position trading is just as silly. BTW, scalping doesn't necessarily mean trading for ticks.
 
Quote from makosgu:

Thanks for the clarification on front-running in futures since I was fairly certain that ordinary front-running wasn't even possible in the usual pit sense since futures are on an electronic exchange. SO, alternative front-running is available and would be bracketing the market at the appropriate decision points since it is a point that precedes the arrival of the masses (so to speak) that inevitably push profits into your balance sheet. Actually, you can even front-run the pits since volume lulls happen before the order queue spikes (the signal for the floor guy)... OT???

As for today, 198 back-to-back (ie. continuous) trades on the ESU05 contract for a net of 18 points (1.9x H-L) per contract less comm. The breakdown is as follows, 66 of the 198 actions aggregated a result of 38.5 points (4.1x H-L), 76 of the 198 actions were actual washes (ie. bid reverse == ask reverse or vice versa), and the remaining actions resulted in the day's net. Is this simple?

Bottom line, "difficulty" is a perception and somewhat of a crippling mental limitation/orientation. How about, where is simple money made in the futures market? A few iterations of these Q's (ie. what is the next simplest) and eventually everything is simple since your experience$$$ will have established it as such.

Kindest Regards,
MAK!

Please post a screen shot of the execution report of the brokerage you are using, with the account numbers blacked out of course.
 
In response to the original question. A couple of reasons, IMO. First off, the floor traders can pay as little as 65 cents round turn, which makes it pretty tough to compete. Secondly, since the futures are a leading indicator, with the equities following, it is generally easier to trade the lagging instrument.

In addition, futures are a "zero sum game" - and equities have earnings, dividends, etc. to provide additional profit potential.

Don
 
Quote from Grob106:

Please post a screen shot of the execution report of the brokerage you are using, with the account numbers blacked out of course.

I would like to see this too, out of curiousity...
 
Quote from volente_00:

Greed and speed.


With 100 to 1 leverage, most people never perfect the risk control needed to trade them and they blow up from being over leveraged.



Also the speed is crazy compared to trading equites, watching the DOM will make you dizzy when the program trades start going off. You can make or lose 5k in less than a minute, most equity trades are not used to the violent swings.

WELL SAID!!!!
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

We may as well be having an in-depth conversation about why situps is more difficult than pushups.

NihabaAshi
Great idea! I'll start the new thread and we can continue this discussion there.

M
 
Quote from Grob109:

We all see that you have the hold and reverse down meaning that back-to-back means three actions constitute two profit takings.

For an 81 bar market I usually am running at 20 to 40 actions.

200 is your round number and take my high value of 40.

I shoot for 3X (H-L) and you are grossing 4 and netting 2.

Both of these records are comparable. Further I do show 1/3 of my profit takings as either washes or 1 tick gains. I avoid the 1 tick losses by being risk adverse.

I am on the five minute chart.... I guess you aren't...lol...

So If you aren't and you switch, guess what? By doing just what you do on the 1 min on the 5, I think the 200 will become 40 and the 38 - x =19 will cause the 38 to hang up there and x will diminish. You will be at a little less than 30. I think the washes will drop fromm 66 to under 10 as well. Dividing by 5 gives you 13.

Sideline part way through convergence and do the BO in the pm by doing a two to three action entry to pick the side of the first trending run up. You can grab a tick or two and go the other way or you can grab a tick or two and grab another best position few ticks and act to go with the original direction. What it means is this: you are very anticipatory and do in fact front- run the smart money and you see several of the principal strategies rolling on the DOM (work harder on the DOM and only look at it after your have swept the pro-rata volume and to discern one of >, < , or same. The five min check points on volume are 0.5 (10%), 1 min (20%), 2min (40%), 2.5 min (halfway), 4 min (80% and you relax on extra time), and start over. dicserning volume and then doing the check out on DOM keeps you oriented to the dominant strategy that is coming into the market as new owners who faked out old less clever owners leaving at the wrong time.

The switch is going to take a week plus maybe. You will get tense slowing down and revert for safety and survival comfort at first.

The gross shows clearly that you are underdamped as I mentioned. Running at 4X of H-L gross is very superior. We are NOT talking in any way about drawdown possibilities. They are going off the table more and more. To front run best you do it just in time and not with a too soon sloppiness.

In those cases where consecutive actions are actually two part of a reversal in effect, that is you exit to take profits and reenter to go the other way, the game is to reduce actions (lower the count) by slowing the exit and accelerating the rentry to strike a best gross and longer next hold. A win win type of improvement.

So the subject is harmonics. Are your end effects odd (triangular) or even (boxy) in character. respectively you do the 2 pair for odd peaky endings and you handle the other as a stall just in time(see the dissolve on a steady two pair and concurrently the x2x on the volume.

So everthing gives you more time to do what? Sweep and analyze. Do two sweeps and one analysis. This is a slight slowing for you. And you get some chances to see "What wasn't that?" a little better.

Have a longer lunch on the sidelines when the signal to noise ratio is way up there on less than market sustaining volume. It just happens and there is no game in town when it does.

Excellent as always... The slowing down is definitely what is required. Admittedly, my stated "real" results were just by focusing on the T&S alone as a skill building exercise. The 4.1x breakdown is also a bit below the breakdown's usual mean of what has been extrapolated through the course of the day. Typically the positive aggreagate is > 5.1x and outliers for the past 2 months were > 7.2x. It can be exhausting to really stay on top of what continues to happen "now".

At the other end of the spectrum, I was concurrently executing on a second independent account, a more relaxed Price paradigm in which the activity was 8 trades netting 5.75 points per contract on ES for yesterday as a reference for the spectrum I am currrently processing.

So there is a middle ground in the 20-40 action regions and 1 tick losses can be mitigated by risk aversion. Is your risk aversion a result of being "tuned in" and appropriately "focused" only when required or a safety mechanism skill?

The DOM comment is certainly appreciated. Per chance, are there any related logs that could useful for sorting and processing?

Kindest Regards,
MAK

For the log people, it is irrelevant. I have comrades who stare over my shoulder throughout the entire day and they still aren't convinced. I handed out spreadsheets (not in ET yet) that run the same activity automatically and it's deamed "luck" (ie. an ever increasing window of observation is required for convincing validation). What is required for anyone, including myself, is to focus on what is required (knowledge, skills, experience) when the time has arrived to get job at hand done. I can self-teach but currently lack skills to teach others. Assuming I posted a log, there will be the usuals who want to see audits, then a week of live calls, 1 line descriptions all of which have nothing to do with this thread. You see the ET MVP's (which I am not since I am still skill building) subjected to this better spent time. If at some point I acquire the skill to lay out a process, I will, even then it is likely to be "unbelievable".
 
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