Why is the Futures market supposedly more difficult?

Quote from muppet:

Well, that's a good enough proof for me.

I hope it's good enough for all the other folk who might have tried this dead end.
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Good for you, Grasshopper!
 
Quote from candletrader:

I initially struggled with futures, before making a consistent living with them... for more on this see:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54164

The fundamental thing to bear in mind about the intraday trading of futures is that we never 'choose' a stock that moves like the futures for an intraday trade... we always choose the better behaved, more trendy stocks...

The approach and strategy to futures cannot, therefore, be similar to the approach and strategy used in daytrading well-behaved stocks... to try and daytrade futures the same way as you trade your self-selected / scanned for stocks is a recipe for disaster...

In order to successfully daytrade futures (after having made the mistake in the previous paragraph and having paid for it), I had to go right back to the drawing board and I intensively studied intraday price action over many months, to try and figure out when and why moves occurred... it then became apparent to me that a paradigm shift in my daytrading approach had to occur if I was to have any edge...

I have made that paradigm shift, and I am now a consistent and successful index futures daytrader... I take an average of under 1 daytrade a day on the S&P eminis (my commissions to net profits ratio is non-existent, as a result of both my low trade frequency and the tiny commissions to leverage ratio), I lose around 50% of the time (which I am psychologically comfortable with), and I make a very good living... There is no more scanning for stock candidates, no more chat room pump and dump, and no more hyperactive scalping (so, pleasingly, no more unnecessary enriching of my brokers)... none of that... just a simple, low stress, somewhat systemized approach to daytrading index futures...

I just wish I knew many years ago what I now know...
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I wish every newbie who comes to this board could read this post. The key phrase in my mind is "an average of under 1 trade a day".
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I wish every newbie who comes to this board could read this post. The key phrase in my mind is "an average of under 1 trade a day".
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Those who survive trading for a long time eventually evolve into this approach. "Average under 1..." isn't necessarily definitive of the style.... but "1-2, trades per day with 5, being uncommonly active" is in the ball park.
 
To answer the question in the original post, imo it's because the futures market is very efficient. You almost have to forecast direction which is a losers game 90% of the time. Whereas in equities there are many edges such as arbs, pairs, OPG, MOC, IPO's or whatever. Market direction doesn't really come into play. It was also a good point that there are no big futures traders on the P&L thread. I'm sure there are a few on ET, but not nearly as many as make a living with stocks.
 
Efficiency.... The futures markets will make you feel as if they know what you are trying to do (almost uncanny), the equities markets won't as much.
 
Interesting replies so far. I find it interesting that many would have strong opinions on whether or not scalping or trading futures once per day is a winning way to go (or a fool's way of trading.... depending on your perspective).

I would be more interested in finding out what newguy1 was interested in trading. The universe of futures is quite broad and includes everything from weather based products to grains to interest rates to oil to index futures to SSF's to forex. The reply depends almost completely on what this guy wants to trade.

I certainly wouldn't scalp soy for ticks. I wouldn't scalp ES heavily without having some kind of a setup or edge and member rates. Some products readily do, in fact, lend themselves to scalping while others require a good amount of margin and some patience to scalp. In either case, scalping is for a minority of people and is not recommended for a retail trader. This is important to know. You must have the right commission structure, execution speed, etc to scalp futures. So if newguy1 plans to move from scalping TASR to scalping ES, then you best save your money until you can afford the lower commission structure.

Futures have a tendency to emphasize your skill level and psychological makeup. Leverage is the greatest thing when you are a consistent winner, but it is pure poison for someone who hasn't understood himself yet.

My reply to newguy1 would be: What do you plan to trade in futures and how will you trade it?

Once this information is available, then the replies would be useful and more specific to your needs.

Best wishes to all.
 
The MAJORITY of tick-to-tick action in ANY market is noise. To think/hope YOU can deduce "which ticks are not noise and therefore tradable for scalping" is hubris in its highest form. Therefore, "scalping for ticks" is logically most likely to be a fools errand.
 
Quote from gnome:

The MAJORITY of tick-to-tick action in any market is noise. To think/hope YOU can deduce which ticks are not noise and therefore tradable is hubris in its highest form. Therefore, "scalping for ticks" is logically most likely to be a fools errand.
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This is true if the target is to take a tick and risk a tick or more. However, scalping profitably is not done under this expectation. The difference between scalping a swing trading has a lot more to do with the timeframe used and the precision of entries and exits. Since there is much more trading being done, then a trader's exchange fee & commission structure becomes very important. Good scalping means that there must be no hangups with taking many small losses and being completely flexible with what you see. When scalpers are trained, the emphasis is on learning to be good losers before they can ever be winners.

Like I said, it is definitely not for everyone and especially not for those trading at retail rates. The discipline of scalping depends heavily on a person's preference and situation. Comparing swing trading, position trading and scalping with each other is hardly ever a fruitful argument.
 
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