You shouldn't assume things like this. I read this book after 18 years of trading and the only regret I had was that I didn't read it sooner. This book inspired me to take a close look at my psychological makeup and examine my strengths and weaknesses. It's important to point out that I already had the skill but this book took my trading to a whole new level. There are many ways to achieve the ultimate goal. This just so happened to fit into a groove on the path I was traveling down. I've also read books on spirituality that have absolutely nothing to do with trading but improved my trading immensely. Everyone has to find their own groove and find the path that leads to that groove. No two traders are alike.
Why is the book "Trading in the Zone" recommended
- Thread starter ChkitOut
- Start date
There has always been traders who belittle psychological aspects of trading. To my knowledge they are either:
1) Automated traders
2) Discretionary traders who are not aware of or not willing to acknowledge some of their weaknesses
4) Traders who worked unconsciously through their psychological issues
3) Traders with a natural "trader state of mind" (close to absolute trust in oneself/one's strategy, total control of one's emotions)
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At then end of the day, put aside the trading capital, we need these 3 pillars : Technical Knowledge/Skills, a Strategy with a Positive Expectancy and the Appropriate State of Mind to execute it. The tools, the plan and the mindset. You miss any one of these and no matter how hard you work on the others, you will not reach the objective.
This is true for discretionary traders, pro gamblers, pro chess players, pro athletes. To a great extent, this principle applies to many endeavors in life.
As far as this particular book is concerned, while it is probably a bit too long and repetitive for my taste ( there is probably a reason they say perfection comes through repetition) I found it to be pretty clear and useful. I have recommneded it in the past and would still recommend it today but there are other books out there that would do the trick, should a fellow struggling, compulsive trader needs it.
1) Automated traders
2) Discretionary traders who are not aware of or not willing to acknowledge some of their weaknesses
4) Traders who worked unconsciously through their psychological issues
3) Traders with a natural "trader state of mind" (close to absolute trust in oneself/one's strategy, total control of one's emotions)
--------------
At then end of the day, put aside the trading capital, we need these 3 pillars : Technical Knowledge/Skills, a Strategy with a Positive Expectancy and the Appropriate State of Mind to execute it. The tools, the plan and the mindset. You miss any one of these and no matter how hard you work on the others, you will not reach the objective.
This is true for discretionary traders, pro gamblers, pro chess players, pro athletes. To a great extent, this principle applies to many endeavors in life.
As far as this particular book is concerned, while it is probably a bit too long and repetitive for my taste ( there is probably a reason they say perfection comes through repetition) I found it to be pretty clear and useful. I have recommneded it in the past and would still recommend it today but there are other books out there that would do the trick, should a fellow struggling, compulsive trader needs it.
I recall that forum discussion that you had with V Tharp. Very entertaining and informative. He did not understand that the technical tools had to be there, and really stuck by "psychology is everything".
Kevin
Kevin
Quote from Vienna:
Unless you have a way of seeing the market that puts you in sync with it, no book on psychology will help...actually, it might hurt you because you are told that psychology is the reason for your lack of success when in reality you are missing skill.
I had a big discussion with Van Tharp once, where I told him that the reason for Tiger Wood's success was not his psychological edge (even though, of course, he has that too) but a grooved swing he could rely on especially when things got tough. Skills built with drills, basically... a million balls hit at the driving range.
I told Van that his mantras "money management is the most important part of a system" and "psychology is all" were dangerous and misleading, like giving a bad golfer lots of balls and mental training so that he can deal with the losses psychologically ...what the bad golfer needs are not more balls but the skills not to lose them in the rough....Van did not like this at all...
Didn't Van Tharp and his son blow out their accounts?
Quote from Vienna:
Unless you have a way of seeing the market that puts you in sync with it, no book on psychology will help...actually, it might hurt you because you are told that psychology is the reason for your lack of success when in reality you are missing skill.
I had a big discussion with Van Tharp once, where I told him that the reason for Tiger Wood's success was not his psychological edge (even though, of course, he has that too) but a grooved swing he could rely on especially when things got tough. Skills built with drills, basically... a million balls hit at the driving range.
I told Van that his mantras "money management is the most important part of a system" and "psychology is all" were dangerous and misleading, like giving a bad golfer lots of balls and mental training so that he can deal with the losses psychologically ...what the bad golfer needs are not more balls but the skills not to lose them in the rough....Van did not like this at all...
This is not what people want to be told. People enjoy obsessing about their own weaknesses. Indeed some get a perverse kick out of learning that others too suffer from the same malady. As Cheese might observe, these people want to be losers.
Trading is somewhat unique in its ability to disable reason in the mentally weak. I suspect it is the perceived ease - low barriers to entry and execution merely pushing buttons. Coupled with greed.
I wonder if a book purporting to teach engineering, medicine or any other tangible specialism would be widely recommended if the syllabus consisted exclusively of focusing on the emotional and psychological issues present in the student? The practical effectiveness of the material appears irrelevant to those who use it to satisfy their emotional needs rather than as a resource to learn a skill.
This is an interesting comment. We cannot assume that all material published about trading is benign. There is actually a danger in exposing ourselves to the wrong ideas, especially when we accept them without rigorous testing.
How do we know if this book will help our trading? How do we know in advance whether the book could actually harm our trading? How? Perhaps by inculcating misleading ideas, or giving a false sense of security.
Gordon Gekko: I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought.
Quote from Vienna:
Unless you have a way of seeing the market that puts you in sync with it, no book on psychology will help...actually, it might hurt you because you are told that psychology is the reason for your lack of success when in reality you are missing skill.
I had a big discussion with Van Tharp once, where I told him that the reason for Tiger Wood's success was not his psychological edge (even though, of course, he has that too) but a grooved swing he could rely on especially when things got tough. Skills built with drills, basically... a million balls hit at the driving range.
I told Van that his mantras "money management is the most important part of a system" and "psychology is all" were dangerous and misleading, like giving a bad golfer lots of balls and mental training so that he can deal with the losses psychologically ...what the bad golfer needs are not more balls but the skills not to lose them in the rough....Van did not like this at all...
This is not what people want to be told. People enjoy obsessing about their own weaknesses. Indeed some get a perverse kick out of learning that others too suffer from the same malady. As Cheese might observe, these people want to be losers.
Trading is somewhat unique in its ability to disable reason in the mentally weak. I suspect it is the perceived ease - low barriers to entry and execution merely pushing buttons. Coupled with greed.
I wonder if a book purporting to teach engineering, medicine or any other tangible specialism would be widely recommended if the syllabus consisted exclusively of focusing on the emotional and psychological issues present in the student? The practical effectiveness of the material appears irrelevant to those who use it to satisfy their emotional needs rather than as a resource to learn a skill.
This is an interesting comment. We cannot assume that all material published about trading is benign. There is actually a danger in exposing ourselves to the wrong ideas, especially when we accept them without rigorous testing.
How do we know if this book will help our trading? How do we know in advance whether the book could actually harm our trading (for example by inculcating false and misleading ideas, or giving a false sense of security).
Gordon Gekko: I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought.
But what if I told you to use a simple math based counting system to put the odds in your favor.
1) 789 = 0
2) 123456 = + 1
3) 10's, aces, and face cards = -1
When the count is in your favor on a single card deck, bet a higher amount. When the count is negative, bet a lower amount or min.
Now if the count is your favor, and you still lose the hand, do you have the money management skills and psychology to not go on tilt and start increasing your bet beyond what your bank roll can handle or not following the system? That is what is called money management and psychology.
1) 789 = 0
2) 123456 = + 1
3) 10's, aces, and face cards = -1
When the count is in your favor on a single card deck, bet a higher amount. When the count is negative, bet a lower amount or min.
Now if the count is your favor, and you still lose the hand, do you have the money management skills and psychology to not go on tilt and start increasing your bet beyond what your bank roll can handle or not following the system? That is what is called money management and psychology.