Why is that?

Originally posted by Andy62279
Hello everyone. I'm pretty new to this forum as well as this business. There's this question I'd like to ask. If I happen to offend anyone, I greatly apologize. It's not my intention, but like everyone else here, my intention here is to learn.

There are many traders out there that are very intelligent and have a vast knowledge of trading, but they don't make money. Why is that? I know the answer is psychological, but it seems these guys know everything about it too. They seem to have the right attitude, but they're not profiting.

If a trader has the right trading plan, money management, and psychology, how could they still fail? Maybe it's from overtrading, or maybe I perceived these people having the right psychology when they really don't. I'm interested in knowing what your opinions are. My objective is to find if I have any of these weaknesses, so I can work on them before I begin trading.

thanks,
Andy
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They fail because trading is fucking hard. They fail because they're trying to predict the motions of a chaotic system. They fail from fear and greed.

It's like this: You're in the woods waiting for a tree to fall so you can get some firewood. You must predict which direction and when the tree falls. Then you do finally predict and stand at the spot where you will not get hit when it falls. At the last minute fear and doubt make you change position... Then the tree falls and breaks your leg as you try to leap back to where you were in the first place.
And sometimes the tree doesn't fall at all and you just starve.

But don't worry. All you need is positive thoughts........Yeah right.

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"There's no use trying. One can't believe impossible things."
"I dare say you haven't had much practice. ... Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
- Alice & the Queen of Hearts (Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland)
 
Originally posted by futurecurrents



It's like this: You're in the woods waiting for a tree to fall so you can get some firewood. You must predict which direction and when the tree falls. Then you do finally predict and stand at the spot where you will not get hit when it falls. At the last minute fear and doubt make you change position... Then the tree falls and breaks your leg as you try to leap back to where you were in the first place.
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You forgot the part where, after having your leg broken, you hobble over to a rock to sit down, knowing that the tree has already fallen and can't hurt you anymore.

Then, as you lick your wounds, that same tree somehow rolls towards you and breaks your other leg. :)
 
I must admit that I am one of the least intelligent people in this forum. Most of the time, I have no idea what everyone is talking about. The funny thing is......if Nitro was right in his assessment of the PNL of people on this board....I also make more money than 95%.
It almost seems like the smarter you are.... the less "feel" you have for the market....maybe tend to over think things? I am not trying to be a smart ass.....I am just amazed by how many people think trading is "hard" on this board.
Especially if you listen to 777...quite possibly the most pessimistic, bitter,miserable person around?:cool:
 
Originally posted by sdtrader
I must admit that I am one of the least intelligent people in this forum. Most of the time, I have no idea what everyone is talking about.
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in the words of Gordon G's Mom:

LOL hehehee!!!!
 
Originally posted by sdtrader

Especially if you listen to 777...quite possibly the most pessimistic, bitter,miserable person around?:cool:
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without a doubt...(followed by dotslashfutures)

but i have to disagree with smarts being an impediment....i normally score about 140 on IQ tests and i make money...so it doesn't necessarily hurt to me smart...but you do also need emotinal intelligence too (very important)
 
They fail because trading is fucking hard. They fail because they're trying to predict the motions of a chaotic system. They fail from fear and greed.

It's like this: You're in the woods waiting for a tree to fall so you can get some firewood. You must predict which direction and when the tree falls. Then you do finally predict and stand at the spot where you will not get hit when it falls. At the last minute fear and doubt make you change position... Then the tree falls and breaks your leg as you try to leap back to where you were in the first place.
And sometimes the tree doesn't fall at all and you just starve.

But don't worry. All you need is positive thoughts........Yeah right.
More...

Were you long today?
 
Originally posted by aphexcoil


Were you long today?
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Chuckle. No.I was short and sold early...doh! :(..Actually I haven't been doing much trading for about a month now. No volume, no momentum, for my system nothing is happening. Actually I'm proud of myself for not trying to force something. I've kept my earlier gains and the market will eventually come back to me. I hope your quote is true:)
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
- George-Louis De Buffon

But I am getting cranky with these doldrums.

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"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
 
There have been numerous academic studies addressing this question. In a nutshell we are genetically predisposed to behavior that is deadly when trading. The most obvious is the "cut profits, let losses run" syndrome. Unfortunately, it is human nature to want to ring the cash register with a profit but wait and hope that fate bails us out of a loss. Other account killers include the related problems of being undercapitalized, overtrading and taking on too much risk for your capital. For traders, using your gut or what you are "comfortable" with instead of a backtested system or methodology. For investors, trusting the media, CNBC, brokers or tips and mistaking a good company for a good stock.
 
I'd like to thank everyone for their comments.

Andy - I don't think there is any way for you tell tell if you are going to have any of those weaknesses until you are actually trading and you encounter them. Trading will make you do things you would swear you would never do...(Quah)

Quah, I believe you are right about this. I have been demo-trading. It hasn't been profitable, and I know why. I know there's some psychological issues I must overcome before I begin trading with real money.

Great trading plan but didn't follow it, great money management plan but didn't follow it. great psyche but wigged out. (in and long)

inandlong, that's what I thought was the answer to my question. There's this game that I've been playing... with real money of course. I developed a plan that will give me a positive expectancy. In the beginning I didn't follow my plan. Now I follow it to the "T." In the beginning I thought about the money I made and lost. Now I get satisfaction from following my rules no matter what happens:)

Hmmm... is it better to work for McD than spend hours on ET?(Dt-waw)

Dt-waw, in my opinion I do not think it's better to work for McD even though trading hasn't become profitable... yet. Even though I chose this business for the money, it has become more about becoming a trader. I think a trader is someone that focuses on improving one's skill, rather than making money. If I would rather flip burgers than make round turns, then I guess mcd's would be better. But that's not me.

Can't be done. Weaknesses won't become apparent untill you are trading. Start small and tread carefully, keeping track of your every move. Print out a chart of your trades on whatever time frame you used for the play and draw your trades in. Then print charts on the next longer two time frames 5,10.15min. whatever and draw the trades in. Ask yourself what your reasons were for the play. See how the play looks on the longer time frames. What do you see ? What do you change? What worked? No matter what you think you will do it's not going to be what you will do when you are actually trading. By the way, that youth over experience thing isn't going to play in this game.
Just trade a little, be wary, get in touch with what you're actually feeling, get used to it. (Banjo)

Banjo, I agree with you. I'm just trying to visualize some of the things I may encounter, so when I actually trade I will be aware of them.

Everyone, I apologize for the way I replied to your comments. I haven't quite understood the operations of this website. I thank everyone for their comments and help.

Andy
 
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