Why I think this will be worse than the Great Depression

You have got to be fucking kidding. You need a serious education in economics. Yes, the Fed can print money into infinity but in doing so the price or real assets such as gold will soar leaving worthless pieces of paper in its wake. The more the Fed prints the more <B>WORTHLESS</B> paper FIAT money becomes. Take your butt straight to the library and start reading about the histories of Fiat Currencies. Throughout history they have all ended the same way and the US dollar will eventually collapse. When? Who knows, but it will collapse when the international community begins to say, "no thanks."

Quote from ptunic:

The Fed is easily capable, willing, and has already begun to address aggregate demand for money (money supply * money velocity).

They brought short term Fed rates to near 0%.

They are in the process of bringing long term debt to under 2%.

If needed, they will increase direct purchases of other long term debt such as mortgages, including sub-prime and junk bonds, as needed, to reduce interest rates closer to 0%.

If that still isn't working, they will electronically print more money and buy S&P futures and stocks.

If that still isn't working, they will work with the federal government to distribute the money more directly through tax rebates, as well as construction and other public works projects (this is already happening).

If that doesn't work they can give every citizen $20,000.00 USD, electronically printed by the Fed.

If that doesn't work, they can give $1 million. Then $1 billion per citizen. Then $1 trillion. They electronically printed $1 Trillion in under 6 hours at one point already (AIG etc). At one point, that is vastly under $100,000/citizen imo (probably closer to $20,000 at the maximum), inflation in housing prices and other asset values will take hold again and money velocity will decrease at a lower rate than money supply increases.

While I totally agree, money has different forms today than it used to, that can easily be correct by the Fed simply adding 1 digit to the amount it normally prints. This is an oversimplification and is of course done over months, hopefully it makes my point :)

Not that I am recommending this in the slightest, just the power they have is unlimited in terms of creating inflation, and with Bernenke the will is there. They would rather cause 20% annual inflation than risk default for example, and this probably is a smart move.

The real solution involves making inflation-adjusted cuts to government spending and moving closer towards a budget surplus instead of away from it. The big problem now is we have been living way past our means.. and the government's solution to bad debt has been to replace one form with another, instead of face the politically challenging true solutions. If we want to spend so much money, we need to increase taxes for it. If we are past the Laffer curve, then spending has to be cut. 10% deficits are unsustainable, and may put us at risk of shocks even greater than those recently experienced. Thailand, Argentina, and Iceland have some experience in this. We are a larger economy and the world's reserve currency, which is a huge help in reducing default risk, but this advantage does not confer unlimited resources to us. We must pay the piper, and we will, the only question is when and it what form and with what pain. The longer the delay, much like a rubber band snapping, the bigger the pain of adjustment when it comes due.
 
And...if you study history you'll quickly realize the reason we are in this mess is because the Federal Reserve recklessly expanded the money supply from 1995 forward and they are trying to fix this problem by creating even more of it. That's like you and I trying to fix our swelling credit card accounts by transfering balances to more credit cards. You can I can get away with that for a while but eventually that house of cards will collapse when we can't get another credit card. The Federal Reserve will collapse when people begin refusing dollars backed by the Fed. You simply cannot print money into eternity and expect it to retain it's value. The Federal Reserve will eventually run out of credit cards.
 
Quote from the1:

You have got to be fucking kidding. You need a serious education in economics. Yes, the Fed can print money into infinity but in doing so the price or real assets such as gold will soar leaving worthless pieces of paper in its wake. The more the Fed prints the more <B>WORTHLESS</B> paper FIAT money becomes. Take your butt straight to the library and start reading about the histories of Fiat Currencies. Throughout history they have all ended the same way and the US dollar will eventually collapse. When? Who knows, but it will collapse when the international community begins to say, "no thanks."

I think I probably worded by post very poorly.

I absolutely agree with you that the Fed printing money helped cause this mess and would cause massive inflation. By keeping interest rates under equilibrium for so long, this caused an imbalance in savings and investment which always causes a greater frequency of bubbles (and thus panics) which destabilize resource allocation and put the economy at great risk.

My main point was to say the Fed could and is in the process of doing this, and I agree it is a terrible thing.
 
After much consideration I'm placing blame with Greenspan.

When housing prices began to rise stupidly he should have started raising rates to cool off the market. Instead he lowered rates to historically low levels and the thing ran away like Chernobyl. He had his hand on the throttle. It was his watch.

At the time I remember wondering wtf he was thinking when my house doubled in 2004-2005. Why didn't Greenspan act?
 
Quote from fearless9:

Why not start by asking the unaskable first.

'What is the gov. trying to do and why are they trying so hard to make it work'

regards
f9

Starting from the very general, what are the current macroeconomic objectives, if you listen to the bobble-heads and hot air coming out of Washington at the moment?

First: growth, of course! Getting the economy going. That calls for economic stimulus. Let’s see how high the prices go up this time. Maybe this time around we can achieve hyperinflation.

Second: Stabilizing financial institutions: getting banks lending – that’s important too. You see, we are just not in enough debt yet, that’s our problem. We need more debt, and quickly!

Third: jobs! We need to create jobs. Low-wage jobs, of course, to replace all the high-wage manufacturing jobs we’ve been shedding for decades now, and replacing them with low-wage service sector jobs, mainly ones without any job security or benefits. We need much more of that, and quickly!

So that’s what we have now.

If you thought that the previous episode of uncontrolled debt expansion, globalized Ponzi schemes, and economic hollowing-out was silly, then I predict that you will find this next episode of feckless grasping at macroeconomic straws even sillier. Except that it won’t be funny. I don’t recommend passively standing around and watching the show.

Right now the Washington economic stimulus team is putting on their Scuba gear and diving down to the engine room to try to invent a way to get a diesel engine to run on seawater. They speak of change, but in reality they are terrified of change and want to cling with all their might to the status quo. But this game will soon be over, and they don’t have any idea what to do next.

So, what is there for them to do? What should their realistic new objectives be?

Forget “growth,” forget “jobs,” forget “financial stability.”

That ship has sailed...

This ship is on the rocks, water is rising, and the captain is shouting “Full steam ahead! So do you listen to guy on the bridge, or do you desert your post in the engine room and go help don the lifejackets... deploy the lifeboats?
 
For one who claims to be educated, you're a real dumbass... it's way more complicated than that.
Quote from the1:

And...if you study history you'll quickly realize the reason we are in this mess is because the Federal Reserve recklessly expanded the money supply from 1995 forward and they are trying to fix this problem by creating even more of it.
 
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