Why I prefer EA's to Manual Trading

[ybfjax]

Quote from Good1:

I'm reminded of Nicolas Darvis' method. It was set up to operate somewhat unattended, while he was out dancing around the world. If i recall, its ability to operate relatively unattended was part of his key to success. For many of us, our attendance can easily translate into meddling and interference. In my experience, what i've been able to automate did better than when i was not attending (meddling with) it. The weakest link with unattended, imo, is one's internet connection, whether it is sturdy (always on). This would be the prime reason for attending closely to any robot that is already programmed and tested well. It seems to me any robot with a robust connection ought to be able to go on it's own for at least 24 hours. I'm thrilled by those that can go a long time without intervention, and will be watching the MQ5 ATC very closely this year. Another time for close attendance would be the when a successfully demo'd robot is making the transition from demo to the unknowns of a live mode. Another time for closer attendance would be when raising the level of leverage (volume of lots) toward a higher risk% of equity per trade. Watching the screen hurts my eyes anymore, so i wouldn't be considering any of this unless there was the possibility of going a week at a time without looking at a screen. All the better if each week was likely to yield a gain, even if a small %.

I would never advise full live automation from a home computer, unless you plan to have multiple internet connections and power sources. Use a VPS. you can get a reliable one from CNS for about $30. When auto-trading live, do your best to have your computer physically as close to the broker's server as possible (latency).

Manual trading, or testing could be done, but I suggest final testing be done on the very platform that you will be using. VPS are very common and cost effective for this approach.

Quote from Good1:

You seem to suggest that MT4 robots are not as robust as other types of robots, or that MT4 brokers are able and willing to pull more than average shenanigans. Please elaborate.

I understand there can be a big difference between a demo account that seems to do well, and a live account where a broker is taking the other side of your trade, and has ways to make sure they don't lose in the long run. As noted, this is where i would attend closely.

I suggest opening three accounts when going live, run the same trades through all of them, and monitor the bottom line. Stay with the one that least handicaps your results, cut the two handicaps, and add two more for monitoring. Keep this process going, and let the robots go unattended as they (and your internet connection) prove relatively reliable. You could have the robot send emails on a regular basis. If it misses an appointed mail time, it could mean that it has lost connection. If it's connected and still trading, it shouldn't be difficult to monitor account equity through automated email, allowing for a degree of unattended automation.

Reputable brokers typically do not have this issue. As long as the robot itself is configured properly, then you can work on other issues like broker fills. And you begin to tweak the robot to handle the different exceptions that come up (there's not that many)

When I was testing strategies, I had 20-30 demos running at a time at one point, forward testing different settings. This is impossible to do with manual trading (you can only click so much and watch a screen for so long). Scalability is the biggest advantage with automation. I cannot overemphasize the importance of a systems approach to profitability. You can always tweak the system along the way.

 

[Good1]

Quote from ybfjax:

I would never advise full live automation from a home computer, unless you plan to have multiple internet connections and power sources. Use a VPS. you can get a reliable one from CNS for about $30. When auto-trading live, do your best to have your computer physically as close to the broker's server as possible (latency).

Manual trading, or testing could be done, but I suggest final testing be done on the very platform that you will be using. VPS are very common and cost effective for this approach.



Reputable brokers typically do not have this issue. As long as the robot itself is configured properly, then you can work on other issues like broker fills. And you begin to tweak the robot to handle the different exceptions that come up (there's not that many)

When I was testing strategies, I had 20-30 demos running at a time at one point, forward testing different settings. This is impossible to do with manual trading (you can only click so much and watch a screen for so long). Scalability is the biggest advantage with automation. I cannot overemphasize the importance of a systems approach to profitability. You can always tweak the system along the way.

Very good advice thank you very much!

Years ago, before VPS was popular or known to me, i rented an apartment primarily to have it's great built-in internet connection for unattended automation. And yes, it was great. I was confident enough in it to let something i coded run for eight days unattended. I probably lucked out - no problems. But wouldn't do it again, considering the new options. I'm looking forward to $30-$50 a month compared to $650 + $35 (for the local internet provider). My problems in those days was i was trading and coding on the same darn platform, tweaking this and that, while the robot was in the market. Though there's nothing wrong with tweaking, working on the same platform interfered with my robot, and there were a couple of times it did not exit a trade because of the way i had answered some vague dialogue box . And there was a time i over-rode my code when it was doing extremely well...and wouldv continued had i not started to manually guess when it would peak and/or valley (trading the equity curve without a plan).

So going forward, i will be doing my development work on a completely other installation of the platform, in demo mode. And going live, yes, definitely a reliable VPS.

Right now, i'm trying to decide between MT4 and MT5...or just go with both after a little bit longer learning curve.

 

[ybfjax]

Quote from Good1:

Very good advice thank you very much!

Years ago, before VPS was popular or known to me, i rented an apartment primarily to have it's great built-in internet connection for unattended automation. And yes, it was great. I was confident enough in it to let something i coded run for eight days unattended. I probably lucked out - no problems. But wouldn't do it again, considering the new options. I'm looking forward to $30-$50 a month compared to $650 + $35 (for the local internet provider). My problems in those days was i was trading and coding on the same darn platform, tweaking this and that, while the robot was in the market. Though there's nothing wrong with tweaking, working on the same platform interfered with my robot, and there were a couple of times it did not exit a trade because of the way i had answered some vague dialogue box . And there was a time i over-rode my code when it was doing extremely well...and wouldv continued had i not started to manually guess when it would peak and/or valley (trading the equity curve without a plan).

So going forward, i will be doing my development work on a completely other installation of the platform, in demo mode. And going live, yes, definitely a reliable VPS.

Right now, i'm trying to decide between MT4 and MT5...or just go with both after a little bit longer learning curve.

Not that many brokers are using mt5 live, but have demos available: ibfx au, vantagefx, and gomarkets. Vantagefx is the only one that is allowing live accounts with mt5. GoM should be launching live within 2 months.

the overwhelming majority will still be with mt4 for a long time, and mt5 will be an addition, not a replacement (yet). you are safe with mt4.

It's nothing to install several copies of mt4 on one laptop. I recommend installing them outside the program files folder, especially when using 64 bit windows. i'll think you'll have fun.

 

[Good1]

Quote from ybfjax:

Not that many brokers are using mt5 live, but have demos available: ibfx au, vantagefx, and gomarkets. Vantagefx is the only one that is allowing live accounts with mt5. GoM should be launching live within 2 months.

the overwhelming majority will still be with mt4 for a long time, and mt5 will be an addition, not a replacement (yet). you are safe with mt4.

It's nothing to install several copies of mt4 on one laptop. I recommend installing them outside the program files folder, especially when using 64 bit windows. i'll think you'll have fun.

I've got a 64 bit Win7 laptop, and am ready for sum fun. But first, i need to know what you mean by outside the program files folder. Currently, i have three MT4 demos (from three different brokers) set up in \Programs (x86) and two MT5 demos from MetaQuotes set up in the \Programs path (where 64 bit apps go). I name them MT5_1, MT5_2 like that. Is this what you mean or is there a better path (ie C:\MT5_1)?

 

[ybfjax]

Quote from Good1:

I've got a 64 bit Win7 laptop, and am ready for sum fun. But first, i need to know what you mean by outside the program files folder. Currently, i have three MT4 demos (from three different brokers) set up in \Programs (x86) and two MT5 demos from MetaQuotes set up in the \Programs path (where 64 bit apps go). I name them MT5_1, MT5_2 like that. Is this what you mean or is there a better path (ie C:\MT5_1)?

Not sure if it was a myth or not. I can say that I did have a problem on win 7 with some folders disappearing when I had installation of mt4 in the program files (x32) folder.

I created an "C:\0Metatrader4\IBFX 1" folder. the zero keeps the folder sorted at the top, although win 7 does not have many folders at the C:\ level. then each subsequent installation is done in C:\0Metatrader4 or C:\0Metatrader5 folder. Never had problem with missing folders or any other conflicts reported in the mql4 forums. But I did this mainly because it was easier to setup many demos using my self-installer. If I needed to copy EAs/indicators, it was easier to quickly find installation folders by keeping names consistent and folders closest to the top of C drive.

It's not required, but makes it easier on yourself moving forward.

 

[oraclewizard77]

Can I run Ninja trader on a Virtual Private Server and link it to my account to trade overnight?

 

[Good1]

Quote from ybfjax:

Not sure if it was a myth or not. I can say that I did have a problem on win 7 with some folders disappearing when I had installation of mt4 in the program files (x32) folder.

I created an "C:\0Metatrader4\IBFX 1" folder. the zero keeps the folder sorted at the top, although win 7 does not have many folders at the C:\ level. then each subsequent installation is done in C:\0Metatrader4 or C:\0Metatrader5 folder. Never had problem with missing folders or any other conflicts reported in the mql4 forums. But I did this mainly because it was easier to setup many demos using my self-installer. If I needed to copy EAs/indicators, it was easier to quickly find installation folders by keeping names consistent and folders closest to the top of C drive.

It's not required, but makes it easier on yourself moving forward.

Ok i see. Yes i like to keep some things close to the C: drive just because it's handy, and occasionally, like with some compilers, something can't follow a path that has any spaces in it such as "Programs and Settings" (XP).

What i've done is i've centralized all my Mq4 and Mq5 code. I have/keep only one copy of whatever code i have, and then i have central folders where i keep everything that will be edited/developed. Then i've set up Notepad++ to mimic the same color scheme as you get in any MetaEditor. I also have a couple plugins , thanks to other coders, that make working in Notepad++ as productive, or more, than working in any MetaEditor. For example, i have a pop up that makes available the entire list of keywords and functions, any way i want to present/insert them. I also have a snippet library with a GUI for inserting any other custom code snippet/template into a script. Then i wrote an AutoIt script so whenever i want to compile, i'll click the AutoIt script shortcut on my desktop and it will read the Notepad++ titlebar to get file and type. Then it will send that file to the metalang.exe (the compiler) and then copy the resulting file to the appropriate folder in all of my MT4 installations depending on if its an expert, a script, an indicator or include. So it's one click compile that distributes to all Metatrader installations at once. And if there's an error, it will produce the error report generated by the compiler. This is what i came up with to code and manage potentially many installations/accounts. This way, i'm not bothered so much by the relatively long paths to my various installations. It could work with any editor i preferred. The newly compiled code is immediately available in every installation, but does need to be loaded onto a chart, which i still do manually.

Would you be interested in such a tool? If so, i'll go over my script again and send you something that works for your editor of choice.

 

[ybfjax]

Quote from Good1:
.........

Would you be interested in such a tool? If so, i'll go over my script again and send you something that works for your editor of choice. [/B]

I think you should post a tool like this in a separate thread. It might also be better received in forums like forexfactory and forex-tsd, which have dedicated programming threads.

An "end user" like me is more interested in a "file copier" tool that will copy the necessary files from a single folder into each of the metatrader 4/5 sub-folders with 1 click. It can auto-overwrite existing files, and have an option to exclude certain mt4/mt5 installations from the mass copy. I actually have one program designed to do just this. It's archaic, but get the job done.

Quote from oraclewizard77:

Can I run Ninja trader on a Virtual Private Server and link it to my account to trade overnight?

A VPS is nothing more than having a private desktop that is always connected and always on, even when you walk away from it. You can access at anytime using remote desktop connection. When you disconnect RDC connection (correctly), the computer and all programs stay running just like they would on any other computer. As long as you have the necessary ram, you set it, forget it, and check in occasionally to ensure all is well.

You can get dual core processor with 512 mb ram for $32/mo with 100% uptime. pm me for link. You would want to get 64 bit win 2008 server. win 2003 might work also, but 2008 is much more like win 7. my server admin put it this way "you remember your cell phone you bought in 2003? what about one you bought in 2008. big difference, right?

 

[ybfjax]

you can view a live example of expert advisor on a remote desktop here
http://www.livestream.com/awarenessforex
it may be down, but I might start a new thread. Or better to subscribe for updates at awarenessforex.com facebook page. There is also a bigger screen version of the streaming video at AF. The expert actually took profitkeeper to a different level by combining entry and exit targets into 1 ea.

 

[Cassius]

Quote from ybfjax:

I guess the scarcity model is very hard to shake once you learn it and practice it for years. Profitable EAs are profitable not because they have some secret process. They are profitable because they can detect a pattern that occurs all the time and make a repetitious entry/exit choice.

Automation is simply a systems approach of taking different manual techniques and combining them in such a way that you can leave it unattended, just like a car motor or a email mailing list.

So you think there are EA's that work forever? No, there are none. Every pattern once dissipatates. And what's the reason for this dissipation? The essense of exploiting each pattern is getting other people's money. That how market works. The more people get knowledge about some pattern the less profitable it becomes, that's it.