probably only 5 min....I have seen many times when there appears to be a deliberate effort to mislead...….
some banks were fined recently for 'collusion' so that is outright manipulation.....
set ups appear all the time
Why I Lost Money- IMO
- Thread starter padutrader
- Start date
probably only 5 min....I have seen many times when there appears to be a deliberate effort to mislead...….
some banks were fined recently for 'collusion' so that is outright manipulation.....
set ups appear all the time
Where are the orders coming from flashing every second in a range 1 - 20 mil.?! (EURUSD)
Retail money??
That's proof they are active on LTF's ; HFT and institutions.
(btw they are lazy; 70% of trading in Forex is done by algo's)
I gave you an example of stoprunning on a Lower TF.
I exaggerated to make a point, but let's say there are 10.000 retailers caught.
It's not their loss they care about; it's the bundle of orders they can get cheap just before price is heading the other way.
Let me give you another example:
in a strong trend there's almost always a "good" counter "setup" on the 1, 3 or 5 min.
We all know what comes next if you take the trade...
Do you really believe that is caused coincidentally by "countertrend" traders, suddenly gaining strength to create a perfect "entrybar"?
I believe it is created on purpose to trap as many as possible.
ROFLMAO....traders need to realize that a tight channel (say on a bull market) on a 5 min chart is just a BO or spike on a 15 min chart. There is no conspiracy. An institution is bullish and pushes the market up. On the other side bearish institutions will attempt to make the BO fail. Why? Could be any number of reasons but bottom line they are bearish. The first PB in a bull spike..BO...tight channel is simply the bears trying to make the BO fail and some of the bulls taking profit.
May I suggest that traders fail because they have not yet learned to read the pressures in the market, place the correct SL, and manage the trade as subsequent pressures unfold after they have taken a position....so.....
They dream of
1)stop running
2)conspiracies
3)manipulation
4)and they are out to get me theories.
The solution to #1 (if a trader believes it indeed happens) is correct SL and a readiness to move ones SL (which is anathema if you listen to the gurus).
The solution to the second one is throw the idea in the garbage can. They are not conspiring together to get our peanut money. They want each others money. It is the institutions fighting it out with each other and we get caught in the rift.
The solution to the third is outwit them (if a trader really believe they are manipulating the market against him)....good luck figuring that one out..lol
The solution to the 4th one is dispense with the concept they want our money. Our bubble gum...potato chip money...ice cream money...is of little consequence or interest to them. They are after GS’s money and GS is after theirs.
Finally, the concept that “they” are all conspiring together via phone and trading program development to rip off the small trader is a bit ludicrous. They aren’t hunting us down. There is NO WAY they can conspire and create setups on all the time frames all day long. It is ridiculous to think so. Just take a moment and think about this.
A trader’s time and effort would be much better rewarded by putting their energies in honing their skills in detecting which side is winning and employing setups that will exploit that pressure.
Most traders don’t have that skill honed enough and cannot get a grip on the PA in the market so they fall into the trap of blaming others for their failures. That is a death spiral that is very difficult to escape from once it has become habitual.
It would be best to change one’s W.V. of the markets and dispense with all four of the concepts above by throwing them in the market garbage can of useless theories and exercises and spend time learning how to read pressures in the market, which is a big auction that is constantly being probed and pushed all day, then developing strategies and tactics to exploit those pressures and probes along with the market direction they create.
All said above is my opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less. It certainly is not trading advice. But I have been there and done all four. It never worked out with any consistency for me so I had to change my mindset.
Last edited:
I totally disagree.
You only stand a chance if you realize how rigged these markets are and anticipate on that.
Making money means the rest has to lose.
Therefore Misdirection has to be involved.
And that's the last reaction from me @volpri.
Good if you're making money.
Maybe we're looking at the same things but see the causes completely different.
You only stand a chance if you realize how rigged these markets are and anticipate on that.
Making money means the rest has to lose.
Therefore Misdirection has to be involved.
And that's the last reaction from me @volpri.
Good if you're making money.
Maybe we're looking at the same things but see the causes completely different.
I'm not sure where you've been the past 10 years but they are conspiring via more than just telephone or trading programs.
I'm sure you know how to use Google but if not...you can start with a few of the below links out of hundreds involving other banks not mention in the below links...billions of dollars lost due to manipulation and over a billion dollars in fines but rarely jail time. Sure, some even lost their jobs but they are being replaced by others getting in on the secret action.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-face-forex-cartel-class-action-in-australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forex_scandal
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ll-to-you-ex-trader-decodes-fx-cartel-tactics
Yet, you're right about one thing...they were not conspiring to rip off the small retail trader. They were doing it/still doing it to rip off anyone else that wasn't part of "The Cartel".
wrbtrader
Last edited:
Forex....always been investor fraud. Always will be. That kind of stuff happens. What I am talking about is manipulating the price movement on ALL time frames ALL day, EVERYDAY, on ALL stocks and ALL futures. It is ludicrous to imagine they are manipulating PA on 1,2,3,5,10,15,30,60, minute charts all day long everyday, on every instrument out there. There is no way they can collude on that. If so, then it is a totally rigged game and none of us would every beat the markets consistently and make money. They simply are not sitting around looking a 1 min charts devising ways to cheat a few million retail traders.I'm not sure where you've been the past 10 years but they are conspiring via more than just telephone or trading programs.
I'm sure you know how to use Google but if not...you can start with a few of the below links out of hundreds involving other banks not mention in the below links...billions of dollars lost due to manipulation and over a billion dollars in fines but rarely jail time. Sure, some even lost their jobs but they are being replaced by others getting in on the secret action.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-face-forex-cartel-class-action-in-australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forex_scandal
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ll-to-you-ex-trader-decodes-fx-cartel-tactics
Yet, you're right about one thing...they were not conspiring to rip off the small retail trader. They were doing it/still doing it to rip off anyone else that wasn't part of "The Cartel".
wrbtrader
Come on guys do you really believe that manipulation BS? If so, you will never be able to be a consistent winner because it would be impossible to know what manipulative tactic they were using at the moment and how would we determine which one being that while one institution is using one tactic a half dozen others are all using different manipulative tactics and ALL at the SAME time on a 5 min chart of the same trading instrument.
Whatever they do shows up on charts as bullish or bearish with price patterns. They cannot hide.
IMO just best to dispense with this manipulation crap and trade the markets learning to read price action and see where the pressures are at. There will be no end to it if we focus on manipulation. We will always be looking for “what trick are they up to now, how can I be sure, and what can I do about it?”
I believe that you're only one talking about...
ALL time frames, ALL day, EVERYDAY, on ALL stocks and ALL futures. It is ludicrous to imagine they are manipulating PA on 1,2,3,5,10,15,30,60, minute charts all day
In contrast, others (like me) are specifically talking about a specific market without talking about every market, all time frames, all day and price action. In addition, to ensure there's no misunderstanding about what I am talking about...I posted links to specific type of manipulation in a specific market.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken...the OP did not say what you've stated and then you've debated about your own comments as if its what others stated.
Regardless, to be clear, I never assume you were talking about ALL day, EVERYDAY, on ALL stocks and ALL futures. Just to be clear, I was referring to the OP trading Forex currencies the past 12 years in which you seem to imply in an earlier message that you were already aware of such manipulation but then you throw in the other commentary about all markets, all time frames and every day.
There's another type of manipulation in the markets by U.S. Presidents.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/business/stock-market-by-president/index.html
President Clinton clearly the best of them.
Notice how there's nothing in there about ALL markets, ALL day, Every day, ALL time frames nor did I imply such.
wrbtrader
Last edited:
Ok ..ok...okey dokey...the manipulation scenario/narrative can carry on far into many alleys and pathways. Forex is not centralized and basically unregulated so many shenanigans can take place. A few do in centralized regulated markets but it does little good for a retail trader to try and ferret them out. Some brokers screw around with the public but again solves nothing to focus on it. Even MM’s and specialist can mess with things. But whatever they do they cannot really hide unless the data they getting to you is really really creepy stuff. So I just trade the PA and tell them to kiss my ass.I believe that you're only one talking about...
ALL time frames, ALL day, EVERYDAY, on ALL stocks and ALL futures. It is ludicrous to imagine they are manipulating PA on 1,2,3,5,10,15,30,60, minute charts all day
In contrast, others (like me) are specifically talking about a specific market without talking about every market, all time frames, all day and price action. In addition, to ensure there's no misunderstanding about what I am talking about...I posted links to specific type of manipulation in a specific market.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken...the OP did not say what you've stated and then you've debated about your own comments as if its what others stated.
Regardless, to be clear, I never assume you were talking about ALL day, EVERYDAY, on ALL stocks and ALL futures. Just to be clear, I was referring to the OP trading Forex currencies the past 12 years in which you seem to imply in an earlier message that you were already aware of such manipulation but then you throw in the other commentary about all markets, all time frames and every day.
There's another type of manipulation in the markets by U.S. Presidents.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/business/stock-market-by-president/index.html
President Clinton clearly the best of them.
Notice how there's nothing in there about ALL markets, ALL day, Every day, ALL time frames nor did I imply such.
wrbtrader
Does no good to focus on manipulation. I did for years and it never got me anywhere unless I looked at it from a daily time frame. But intraday trading...I just thrown the dirty manipulation memo in the garbage can....
PS i was using hyperbole to drive home a point..but wait..the hyperbole is actually true! Come to think of it.
That really is the point that needs to be made, imo. I know nothing of the forex markets, but what many think of as “stop hunting” in the ES is simply the market doing what it does: price discovery.
they only have to do it in live time ...it will show in all time frames eventually....time frames are just a tool for chart management...
and it has to be done only in critical times if not this action-manipulation/misleading-wlil be too expensive :because it has a cost and that has to be kept at a minimum....
and if it gets too costly....meaning the other side is manipulating or opposing this...then the trend change will come about.
these guys are no fools and they do not want to indulge in needless action if it is too costly.
they know the market sooner and better than anybody..... but they are not the market and they need not be:
YOU CANNOT BEAT THE MARKET,YOU CAN ONLY JOIN IT
it is too costly to oppose the market....Bank of England found this out and Soros made his billion
Last edited: