Why Hawaii gun death rate is only 20% of national average

You are ignoring the point that having tough local laws aren't enough when your neighboring states have laws that completely neuter them. Hawaii doesn't have that problem, their tough gun laws cannot be neutered by states like Indiana.

And what is the agenda here exactly? A Trump supporter went on a mass killing spree and your side's only solution is to arm more of them.


Where the guns used in Chicago actually came from - Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-the-guns-used-in-chicago-actually-came-from/
Nov 7, 2017 - Many of the guns recovered in Chicago — a fifth of them — were purchased in Indiana, which abuts the city's eastern border. An additional 9 percent of the guns recovered in the city came from Mississippi and Wisconsin.

This pattern is not unique to Chicago. States with tougher gun laws often discover that places with more lax legislation are the source of many of the firearms used in crimes.

Last year, the attorney general of New York issued a report about the flow of guns into his state. Attorney General Eric Schneiderman identified what he called the “iron pipeline,” a string of East Coast states through which guns flowed into the state.

In New York City, for example, nearly 9 in 10 firearms come from out of state.





A lot of popular assault weapons come from Russia. It seems like we need Globally enforced gun laws for your idea of differing states (or countries) to maybe hold water.

A true Trump supporter loves his country, is critical of our politicians, and sees foreign influence ruining what our country is about.

You are trying to use a so-called “Trump supporter” to represent that all Trump supporters are bad. Isn’t that how racism works. You pick out a person of a particular race and say they are all that way. “You just can trust a ..., do I never hire them”, etc.
 
Again you missed the point, Democratic politicians are not opposing stricter gun laws or reducing mental health funding or even basic school funding. Even if you assume they are faking their concern for others, there is atleast some considerations, Republicans just don't have any empathy, they develop conditional empathy only when something affects them personally. It's like the Kochs giving to cancer charity because one of them died from cancer while trying to starve poor people during an economic crash. Or some rural Kentucky voter loving Obamacare because it saved their lives while calling him a Marxist until then.

Then I would love to see a Democratic politician put forward middle-ground guns laws that can be agreed upon by a broad-cross section of citizens in the U.S. and enacted at a federal level.

So far the Democratic position has been effectively "ban all guns", moving mental health funding to the their private sector donors (which Republicans also do), and no practical solutions for school funding (most don't even realize that school funding is local/state issue -- not really a federal one).
 
Then I would love to see a Democratic politician put forward middle-ground guns laws that can be agreed upon by a broad-cross section of citizens in the U.S. and enacted at a federal level.

So far the Democratic position has been effectively "ban all guns", moving mental health funding to the their private sector donors (which Republicans also do), and no practical solutions for school funding (most don't even realize that school funding is local/state issue -- not really a federal one).

http://time.com/4173116/gun-control-barack-obama-polls/
 
A lot of popular assault weapons come from Russia. It seems like we need Globally enforced gun laws for your idea of differing states (or countries) to maybe hold water.

A true Trump supporter loves his country, is critical of our politicians, and sees foreign influence ruining what our country is about.

You are trying to use a so-called “Trump supporter” to represent that all Trump supporters are bad. Isn’t that how racism works. You pick out a person of a particular race and say they are all that way. “You just can trust a ..., do I never hire them”, etc.

So Trump's supporters are a race now? Hahahhahaha
 
So let's read the first line of the article...

"The majority of Americans support President Obama’s recently announced initiatives on gun control, according to a survey released Thursday, but they are skeptical of the effectiveness the changes will have."

This is the exact problem -- all the measures proposed by Democrats -- are totally ineffective.

I am tired of trying to explain the meaning of language in every thread,may I suggest you read Ayer's Language, Logic and Truth, ask your wife about it.

The public being skeptical of effectiveness doesn't mean they are totally ineffective. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.
 
I am tired of trying to explain the meaning of language in every thread,may I suggest you read Ayer's Language, Logic and Truth, ask your wife about it.

The public being skeptical of effectiveness doesn't mean they are totally ineffective. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

So let me ask was Obama successful in implementing his gun control measures?

Why not? Keeping in mind that most of the time he was proposing these measures was early in his first term when the Democrats had control of Congress. Oh... yeah this is one of the issues that back-fired badly on Obama, drove up gun sales, and flipped Congress to Republican.
 
Chicago's laws are meaningless when in the neighboring state gun laws are weak and allow the Chicago criminals to obtain cheap ammo/disposable handguns.

Hawaii has that advantage, it is harder for such cheap weapons to leak in. In part a proof that Chicago's problem is fueled by unscrupulous neighbors.

It seems that the cons just don't want to look at what works in America already.

I accidently blended my last response your and ExGoper’s comments. Let’s transport a bunch of traditional heavy gun-users to Hawaii, take away their guns, and see what happens!

Obviously, this is not reasonably possible.

Since you guys have yet to make this very powerful point, I will make it for you anecdotally. I was visualizing myself buying some guns the other day. I considered what I would use then for and how I would go about the selection process for my purchasing decision. I considered what training I should take and the practice necessary for mr to become proficent at handling a gun. Then I considered the risks to gun-ownership. I recalled about half a dozen events in my life where at least some gun owners would have liked to have had a gun with them when facing the situations I faced.

In one of the situations I faced, a man who I did not know, wanted to kill me in New Jersey on a Sunday night with a 9mm handgun. He did not dislike me, but needed to be “made” to become a trusted member of his gang. I got out of being killed by being nice.

If I had a gun and was proficient with it, the outcome could have been different. I am not complaining about the actual outcome, however.

Whenever you shoot someone, whether you are law enforcement or not, your actions in the use of your weapons will be scrutinized. This “scrutiny” will cost you time and large legal fees and the chance for imprisonment. I guestimated the blended costs of most “positive” outcomes involving your use of a gun defensively to be about $50,000. The negative outcome include costs that can’t be paid.

In none of the above mentioned situations I’ve experienced in my life, a gun would not have materially helped me in even the best possible outcome.

Therefore, I do not intend to become an gun owner.

I still support other people rights to gun ownership, though. It is their decision, and they have the right to make it.
 
So Trump's supporters are a race now? Hahahhahaha

Please tell me you are just trying to manipulate the concept I’m trying to put forth in my post of the similar mentality of racism and accusing a whole group of something that one “member” (which you stated was a member) has done.

Or are you just playing stupid?
 
So let me ask was Obama successful in implementing his gun control measures?

Why not? Keeping in mind that most of the time he was proposing these measures was early in his first term when the Democrats had control of Congress. Oh... yeah this is one of the issues that back-fired badly on Obama, drove up gun sales, and flipped Congress to Republican.

No, because the executive branch doesn't have the power, only Congress does and even bipartisan bills were voted down by stooges of the NRA. Ask Toomey, a Republican.
 
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