Why Evangelicals Are Fooled Into Accepting Pseudoscience

Read this it says... we looked very fine tuned... but multiverse and top down view of cosmology in which the question causes the answer may be an explanation.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0602/0602091v2.pdf

"But cosmology poses questions of a very different character. In our past there is an epoch of the early universe when quantum gravity was important. The remnants of this early phase are all around us. The central problem in cosmology is to
understand why these remnants are what they are, and how the distinctive features
of our universe emerged from the big bang. Clearly it is not an S-matrix that is the
relevant observable
3
for these predictions, since we live in the middle of this particular
experiment. Furthermore, we have no control over the initial state of the universe,
and there is certainly no opportunity for observing multiple copies of the universe.
In fact if one does adopt a bottom-up approach to cosmology, one is immediately
led to an essentially classical framework, in which one loses all ability to explain
cosmology’s central question - why our universe is the way it is. In particular a
bottom-up approach to cosmology either requires one to postulate an initial state of
the universe that is carefully fine-tuned [10] - as if prescribed by an outside agency
3
See [6, 7, 8, 9] for recent work on the existence and the construction of observables in cosmological
spacetimes.
1- or it requires one to invoke the notion of eternal inflation [11], which prevents one
from predicting what a typical observer would see.
Here we put forward a different approach to cosmology in the string landscape,
based not on the classical idea of a single history for the universe but on the quantum
sum over histories [12]. We argue that the quantum origin of the universe naturally
leads to a framework for cosmology where amplitudes for alternative histories of the
universe are computed with boundary conditions at late times only. We thus envision
a set of alternative universes in the landscape, with amplitudes given by the no
boundary path integral [13]."
---
Its funny you 2 elitetrader atheist clowns are being defeated by science and the internet every time.

you can lead and et atheist to science but you can't make him think.
 
ROFL!!!! I got popcorn before reading your hilarious, tiny-fisted fit of ignorance and STUpidity! :D

Proof that something doesn't exist is absolutely proof of a negative. Only a total dumbass like you would "think" it's not to begin with, and then keep stomping his little feet despite being wrong... tantrums may have worked with your mommy but they aren't an argument in the real world.

You've proven once again that you are too unread, too intellectually dishonest and too STUpid for this conversation. Crawl back under your rock where you belong.

attachment.php

Quote from stu:

By now then your nerves must be in a terrible mess. Probably better that makes you rofl though than self-harming.
Yes it is, completely inappropriate. You turning blue in the face shouting "STUpid" all the time won't alter a thing.
You were using goal and result synonymously.
Neither at the outset of the square circle problem, nor at the conclusion, nor anywhere in between is the 'goal' anything like the result.

Lol. First pseudoscience now pseudomath.
This mathematical problem was not set out to be "proved negative".... dear me.
There is nothing like the "reexpressing of a negative" ...wtf are you talking about? lol that is just too ridiculous for words! The proposition is given as a straight forward mathematical problem not a negative expression or "reexpression".. omg... "reexpressing a negative" after the result has bolted won't fix your confusion.

Unwittingly a new word discovery for you is it?

I already commented pages ago that a negative proof in math is not the same as proving a negative. Too busy acting like a 5 year old throwing fits, you obviously missed it.
The result of the problem proves true as a logical impossibility. It does not prove negative. Otherwise it would be called proof of a negative. It isn't. YOU call it that and as you are a total dickbrain anyway it doesn't count.

You're glad I brought up the teapot? You wouldn't be if you had a clue.

"First because proof that a method doesn't exist is every bit as much proof of a negative as proof that an object doesn't exist."

Bollocks.
It's proof of an impossibility as true. If circle's could be squared the result would be in the same form, and still a true statement. One proving impossibility the other proving possibility.

You are turning one of those proven results into a negative AND a different statement, namely "proof of a negative", which is categorically not what the math result states in mathematical terms.

As neither the Teapot or God can be measured as objects, both being too indeterminable to be relevant to math or science in general , they are equally unfalsifiable.
So yes, bollocks is a fitting description for your brainless idea that one is less so than the other.

Yes you have proven you are all those. I needn't have bothered really.

Lol.Are you really this ignorant because you are just a prick, or is it a religious mind block that's leaving you so ill-informed? Same thing I suppose.
The result of the math is proven true as a logical impossibility. That is the math part. End of.

It doesn't prove a negative - YOU say it does that AFTER the math and outside of it. It is YOUR perception . It is not the result given by the math.
Otherwise all such impossibilities proven true would be called "proof of a negative". In math none are.

You obviously need to understand math better to realize why they are not.
 

Attachments

Quote from Trader666:
Proof that something doesn't exist is absolutely proof of a negative.
The result of 'square the circle' math problem does not prove something doesn't exist you fuckwit.

It proves that a square equal to the given area of a circle under specific conditions cannot be produced.
That in itself is not proof of no "square circles".

That's why it's a bad example to give for saying it 'proves a negative'. It doesn't.
In fact the problem CAN be resolved although not by the terms stated. Mathematically a square can be constructed with the same given area of a circle.

So in every way it's a bad example to give as supposed "proving a negative".

"as long as the goal (be it proving a negative or something else) is achieved, any valid method can be used to get there."

The valid method used is math. The "goal" is not achieved. The "goal" was not to prove a negative or an impossibility.
The problem does not involve "reexpressing a negative".

It takes a certain class of argumentative retard to make the pathetic comments you have . So well done at least for that achievement.
 
Quote from jem:

Read this it says... we looked very fine tuned... but multiverse and top down view of cosmology in which the question causes the answer may be an explanation.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0602/0602091v2.pdf

"But cosmology poses questions of a very different character. In our past there is an epoch of the early universe when quantum gravity was important. The remnants of this early phase are all around us. The central problem in cosmology is to
understand why these remnants are what they are, and how the distinctive features
of our universe emerged from the big bang. Clearly it is not an S-matrix that is the
relevant observable
3
for these predictions, since we live in the middle of this particular
experiment. Furthermore, we have no control over the initial state of the universe,
and there is certainly no opportunity for observing multiple copies of the universe.
In fact if one does adopt a bottom-up approach to cosmology, one is immediately
led to an essentially classical framework, in which one loses all ability to explain
cosmology’s central question - why our universe is the way it is. In particular a
bottom-up approach to cosmology either requires one to postulate an initial state of
the universe that is carefully fine-tuned [10] - as if prescribed by an outside agency - or it requires one to invoke the notion of eternal inflation [11], which prevents onefrom predicting what a typical observer would see.
3
See [6, 7, 8, 9] for recent work on the existence and the construction of observables in cosmological
spacetimes.
1- or it requires one to invoke the notion of eternal inflation [11], which prevents one
from predicting what a typical observer would see.
Here we put forward a different approach to cosmology in the string landscape,
based not on the classical idea of a single history for the universe but on the quantum
sum over histories [12]. We argue that the quantum origin of the universe naturally
leads to a framework for cosmology where amplitudes for alternative histories of the
universe are computed with boundary conditions at late times only. We thus envision
a set of alternative universes in the landscape, with amplitudes given by the no
boundary path integral [13]."
---

No...
it does not say "we looked very fine tuned..." .....so why do you say it does ??

And why did you edit out ... again... that part which provides one alternative explanation to an appearance of fine tuned .
You're dumb, you'll need a guide. I put it back. It's the other bit in red.

  • "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist."
    Stephen Hawking
YOU assume from what Stephen Hawking states that any appearance of 'fine-tuned' should be other than because of gravity.

It's pitiable really how you religionists go straight for the most absurd conclusions you can think of to call an argument.
 
Quote from jem:

Stu is arguing with Hawking and math results at the same time? He is a troll with no boundaries.
I'm arguing with two dickheads who together couldn't accomplish halfwittery , and supposedly as adults, have their only hope of intelligence evidently fucked over by a ludicrous urge to defend a common imaginary God friend with any clueless and inane methods they can dumb around with.









.......and relax :D
 
Quote from stu:

No...
it does not say "we looked very fine tuned..." .....so why do you say it does ??

And why did you edit out ... again... that part which provides one alternative explanation to an appearance of fine tuned .
You're dumb, you'll need a guide. I put it back. It's the other bit in red.

  • "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist."
    Stephen Hawking
YOU assume from what Stephen Hawking states that any appearance of 'fine-tuned' should be other than because of gravity.

It's pitiable really how you religionists go straight for the most absurd conclusions you can think of to call an argument.

End of page 2 in hawkings 2006 paper.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0602/0602091v2.pdf


" In particular a bottom-up approach to cosmology either requires one to postulate an initial state of the universe that is carefully fine-tuned or it requires one to invoke the notion of eternal inflation, which prevents one from predicting what a typical observer would see."


See that that you fraudulent ignorant lying troll...

"carefully fine tuned or eternal inflation" ( which means carefully tuned... or multiverse or as he goes on to say if you take a top down approach you can explain the tuning by a top down approach coupled with the multiverse speculation.)

In short your jack shit of all trolls....

I have been understating the proof of tuning when I say appearance of fine tuning....

Hawking just told you CAREFULLY TUNED... or you can imagine a multiverse.
 
Back for another humiliating beating?

There's nothing arbitrary or inappropriate except in your obtuse "mind." What part of impossible = NOT possible don't you understand?

Put another way, the set of all possible solutions = the EMPTY set which has NO elements. Which means NO solution exists. Which is a negative. Get it now, dumbass?

P.S. Oh please... I'm obviously talking about not being able to square a circle in a finite number of steps with a compass and straightedge, you moronic troll.
Quote from stu:

You arbitrarily and inappropriately calling that logical impossibility a negative, something which the math does not state it to be, does not make it so.
Quote from stu:

The result of 'square the circle' math problem does not prove something doesn't exist you fuckwit.

It proves that a square equal to the given area of a circle under specific conditions cannot be produced.
That in itself is not proof of no "square circles".

That's why it's a bad example to give for saying it 'proves a negative'. It doesn't.
In fact the problem CAN be resolved although not by the terms stated. Mathematically a square can be constructed with the same given area of a circle.

So in every way it's a bad example to give as supposed "proving a negative".
You've already shown us your STUpendous ignorance of science, math and English and now you're showing it of history.

Up until 1882 when Lindemann proved by contradiction that pi is transcendental, it had been known that if pi was transcendental, the circle couldn't be squared. So after Lindemann's proof, the goal of proving what had been suspected -- that NO solution exists to the "square the circle" problem -- was achieved.
Quote from stu:

The valid method used is math. The "goal" is not achieved. The "goal" was not to prove a negative or an impossibility.
The problem does not involve "reexpressing a negative".

It takes a certain class of argumentative retard to make the pathetic comments you have . So well done at least for that achievement.
 
Quote from Trader666:
Back for another humiliating beating?

There's nothing arbitrary or inappropriate except in your obtuse "mind." What part of impossible = NOT possible don't you understand?

Put another way, the set of all possible solutions = the EMPTY set which has NO elements. Which means NO solution exists. Which is a negative. Get it now, dumbass?

P.S. Oh please... I'm obviously talking about not being able to square a circle in a finite number of steps with a compass and straightedge, you moronic troll.

You've already shown us your STUpendous ignorance of science, math and English and now you're showing it of history.

Up until 1882 when Lindemann proved by contradiction that pi is transcendental, it had been known that if pi was transcendental, the circle couldn't be squared. So after Lindemann's proof, the goal of proving what had been suspected -- that NO solution exists to the "square the circle" problem -- was achieved.

Lol. That's truly pathetic.
Between you and Jem in the No Clue Club, who is playing Grand Poobah .

Quote from Trader666:
P.S. Oh please... I'm obviously talking about not being able to square a circle in a finite number of steps with a compass and straightedge, you moronic troll.

Err yeah right, sure you were talking about that! pffft.
Evidently the penny has dropped at long last and so you have to try and change tack. What a goof.

You've been relying on a wiki disambiguation page up to now , so you've looked further and found, surprise surprise, you really didn't know what the hell you've been screaming all that ignorance and insult about. And of course, probably still don't.

"Put another way, the set of all possible solutions = the EMPTY set which has NO elements. Which means NO solution exists. Which is a negative"

What empty set? Lol. What 'no elements'? What negative?
In terms of MATH the solution is true, not 'a negative', you idiot.

Quote from Trader666:

Up until 1882 when Lindemann proved by contradiction that pi is transcendental, it had been known that if pi was transcendental, the circle couldn't be squared. So after Lindemann's proof, the goal of proving what had been suspected -- that NO solution exists to the "square the circle" problem -- was achieved.
Now you're trying to paraphrase a wiki page to struggle your way around it all.

Earlier you blurted "Proofs 101 is, as long as the goal (be it proving a negative or something else) is achieved, any valid method can be used to get there. "

The "goal" of the original problem to square a circle was not achieved. There was no proof. There was no solution. That's why your use of the term "goal" synonymously with an outcome for that problem is inappropriate. There was no "goal" to have no result.

Lindemann mathematically proved the problem's impossibility as true. He did so in math and therefore as a universal formal quantification of logic set out to prove the problem impossible and he succeeded. Using the term "goal" synonymously with the outcome would be appropriate.
The appropriate term for your nonsense is brainlessness.

Outside of math it can be said amongst many other things that Lindemann's proof is either a positive outcome because there is a solution, or you are calling it a negative - because it proved true - a separate problem as impossible.

All of which still means, not a good example for you to give of proving a negative.

I suggest you need go away and do some work on that pseudo-logic of yours Socrates :p and try show how Lindemann's proof is 'a negative' in MATH.

I won't wait:D
 
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