Why does TA not work (for you)?

Quote from logic_man:

Right, those are huge capital outlays for systems and those costs need to be passed on to investors. No question about that.

I will be the first to say I have a terrible "feel" for markets. I rely on my rules to keep me in or out of trades. Those rules are built around a logical principle which I learned from someone who was a successful trader and then I adapted in a new way. The reason I took up this principle as the basis for my trading was because it was not something I had ever seen anyone else use and I saw that the guy who developed it was already making money. All I had to do was program a bunch of Excel spreadsheets and I was up and running. A couple of years of refining it and it shows no signs of deteriorating. One of the ways I know it works is that almost every time I try to break one of the rules, I end up making less money than I would have if I had just kept to them. Maybe 1 out of every 5 times I break a rule, I make more (or lose less) than I would have otherwise. Again, that's related to my terrible "feel" for the market.

Anyway, back to the issue of HFT, I think that sometimes the best breakthroughs in a field are conceptual, not simply a matter of refining or speeding up the old ways. Throwing a supercomputer at a problem won't necessarily solve it if the supercomputer isn't programmed with the correct concepts. It will just get you to the wrong answer faster.


Interesting, well congrats on getting something going for yourself.

I think I have gained a decent feel for markets over time, I say ok because every time I'm doing great and think I'm getting a really good feel, I get smacked lol

I have rules of course, but they are more like general rules. Conditions change so... you have to adapt to that.
 
Seems to me that if I, look at a chart in whatever time frame, and I can see movement in either direction with a change I can identify and act on then if others have profited by its continued movement without using the chart merely shows that there really is more than one way to skin a cat and that arguments about methods are irreconcilable.
I don't care which one is best. I only care that the one I use is profitable.
Swing trading is easier.
Day trading is only profitable through leverage.
 
Quote from Paddler:

Good question.

Sly dodge from the support. He deserves an Olympic Gold.

As anticipated by his OOE.

Pass forward to Ocean 5 and Tiki.


categories occur regardless of dominance or non dominance

Usually these terms fit with price measures.

What I have been doing in each post that contains measuring information for volume is explaining what the context is. You miss this.

I only respond to your posts to keep knowlageable people on track. You post a lot of erroneous stuff as does ocean 5.

here is an example.

Market surfer uses a TA approach that combines T&S and the book and the dark pools.

He espouses that the games played on the book contribute significantly while the charts only present the T&S.

So the TA has three ingredients:

A the T&S (charting)

B The book

C the games being played on the book.

C represents the largest numbers in the data streams. A is second largest. and B represents exactly 1/2 of A.

By knowing it takes 2 to tango, you know the A is a double entry of two opposite parties.

I use this information in my trading system.

By having 10 to 12 leading indicators of price, price itself is not the first know qualifying data stream.

It may seen that those who claim quantifying is not possible (surf and the quants of companies he is a finder for) that a data stream is added to measure their performance. In this thread it is called quant DD. This explains how they have a limited accuracy.

Among streams A, B and C, there is sufficient data to be able to add degrees of freedom to eliminate any risk (which the quant DD measures as a roughness).

the OODA which is used by surf's silo will always have the quant DD measure and for surf it is a finder's fee standard for non money finds.

The government has legislate that regs be created and that regulators enforce measurements of the operators who engender risk in the financial industry. The ploy which has caused the government workers who try to crete regs to miss deadlines comes from the influence of operations of people who tell surf they cannot quantify the market's operations.

If a person can handle the games played on the book, then he has no risk.

fortuneately, the people who play the games cannot evaluate the cummulative effect of the games. The way to measure the cummulative effect is simple. As usual, it is not done with probabilities.

What is wonderful (priceless in Madison avenue jargon) is that the financial indutry believes what surf hears from his buddies. this creates the quant DD. As surf said the go/nogo for any improvements is beating the quant DD.

The two advantages people who compete with (front run in a technical speculative manner) this majority has is 1. no quant DD and knowing the cummulative effect of games played on the book.

Did you like that? Did it appear automatically on your screen?
 
Quote from TheBlackHand:

I dont care where abouts in some silly channel that occurs - because no good trader watches that kind of trash.

Is it true?

Can you absolutely know it's true?

How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?

Who would you be without the thought?

- Byron Katie

If you are a profitable trader, why are you arguing?

If you aren't a profitable trader, why are you arguing?
 
Quote from TheBlackHand:

Well then that just digs your camp in an even deeper hole.

No good practitioner would aver attempt to forecast. If thats what TA is for - forecasting, then thats why you cant make money with an approach based on TA.

You see a competent person does not predict or forecast the market. He/she simply manages probabilities and outcomes.

Sorry, but you really lose face when you (and BSAM) state that T&S and DOM are also TA. They arent. The fact is, you & BSAM have realised the error of your thinking and are now trying to move the goal posts of what TA is.

When you read any TA book (drivel), nowhere do they mention T&S, DOM etc. NO WAY JOSE!!

It seems to me that the only one who keeps digging an ever deeper hole here is you. I was very early on clear about my views in this thread and it has not changed at all.

Since when did managing probabilities and outcomes as you phrase it cease to be an integral part of forecasting? If you buy, are you not assuming there is a higher probability that price goes up than down? And vice versa? You are in essence forecasting.

And yes, many books on TA mentions the T&S and DOM, and yes, a large majority of books on TA are useless. That is not what we are discussing.

In the next post you start talking about how the T&S gives a better granularity than a five minute chart. That much is obvious, but hardly the discussion is it? The T&S is an account of what happened in the past, even if it happened less than a second ago.

And if those clues and added granularity help you in any way to make a more informed trade decision than pure random entry, you are in fact using the past in order to predict the future. There`s no way around it.

Consider for a second what a chart is. It is a graphical representation of numbers. How does the data look like before you present it visually in a chart? Tabulated numbers? Even the T&S can be displayed nicely in a chart if that is what you`re interested in.

It seems to me that not only do you not know, but you don`t even know that you don`t know.
 
Quote from TheBlackHand:

Sorry bud, but nope.

T&S will show you at what price and time, what volume was traded. The clues in the name :D

A chart aggregates that data so you miss the granularity.

The devil is in the detail they say.

Your 5m chart may show average volume between 56 to 62which made the last high. It all looks very average to you and no warrant of close attention.

The T&S may show that only 2 lots printed at 62, followed by 1200 at 61, then straight away 1700 at 60. Those volumes may not be average. They tell you something.

I dont care where abouts in some silly channel that occurs - because no good trader watches that kind of trash. Youd better not either.

Any model is an abstraction of the full detail of what's modeled. The key is to find a model that represents the least detail with the most efficacy in assisting decision-making.

Saying "Oh, that model doesn't contain 'x'" isn't really a valid criticism until you prove that 'x' matters. It's obviously question-begging to assume otherwise.

I bet that if I told you what's in my model, you would say that it's both overly-simplistic and it doesn't contain a bunch of stuff you think is important. Yet, the results of my trades continue to be positive. Would they be better with your additional model elements? Maybe, but there's no guarantee of that, either.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

...If you are a profitable trader, why are you arguing?

If you aren't a profitable trader, why are you arguing?

I don't care if he's profitable or not.
I consider that to be none of my business.
I feel like it is our business to know if he trades real money.
I can't seem to get a definitive answer out of him.
 
Quote from Laissez Faire:

...It seems to me that not only do you not know, but you don`t even know that you don`t know.

LMAO...Do you always save the best for last???
Please don't be angry if I use that line in the future.
Thanks.
 
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