Why does it take so long?

[i am nobody]

Why did it take me 15 years to get my mind right in this game?

To become a successful surgeon it will take at least 7-10 years after you started your studies at the university.
To become a successful trader is much more difficult. There are more successful surgeons then successful traders.
So education should be probably already longer and more difficult.
On top of that a surgeon will be learned what to do and how to work, as for a trader he will have to find out everything on his own.
So it is very clear why it will take so long. At least it is for me.

But the tricky thing is that for newbies it all looks so easy. Till they start on their own and see the years fly by, and often without any positive result.

 

[OddTrader]

There can be several issues that individually would cause traders spending much time for each issue. imo

1. Trade secrets - Can't be learned from anyone or any sources. Take years to find them out gradually.

2. Pointers - Can be learned from books, forums, articles, exchange/discussion of ideas. However, take years to learn from them.

3. Feedback - Testing for proof/disproof of an idea/concept needs months for each concept/cycle before moving forward to another potential idea/concept. Take years for so many different ideas/concepts.

4. Cycle - Each learning and unlearning cycle for a new trading model/system built with many concepts requires not only time but also energy. A break in between two cycles would be useful/effective. Otherwise, doing the same mistake for unlimited times - A guaranteed failure - sooner or later! Take many years of total time while thinking/insisting not quitting! Unlimited attempts - Willpower.

5. Health - Poor heath or even burn-out due to 24/7/365 research work like a Navy Seal if still survived can cause/force time break to a trader for a slow-down or rest. Take many months/years, if luckily fully recovered.

6. Mindset - A proper mindset for risk management rather than making money can also take time or years. Since nearly all traders started with a normal mindset of making money in trading, naturally! Not losing money or losing only small money is already extremely hard for many traders - if not wipe-out, once or many times! Take years for a ready psychology/mindset - not every soldier can become finally a self-trained, knowledgeable and experienced Seal and still surviving confidently reliably!

7. Edge - ...

8. ??? ...

FYI: http://richhabits.net/change-your-habits-change-your-life-1-on-amazon-and-itunes-heres-why/

"You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Spectre2007]

any derivative you trade is basically figuring out or emulating its tendencies, and each one has it own tendencies, some rules can be applied to any trading instrument, but others are derivative specific. What makes it harder at times, is when market structure changes, and those tendencies that worked in the past change into new tendencies. From 1980-2010, its been mostly human tendencies and psychology at work, so it was easy to see the panic or greed in different instruments. Now the market structure has changed, where central banks can control markets using interlinked algorithms in different markets. So technology has changed the market structure. That's why volatility has died down, human players are being taken out of the mix. Its best to trade instruments where technology hasn't caught up yet to them. Maybe trade new emerging markets where exchanges are just being setup. Vietnam might be one of them, and inefficiencies run rampant. The biggest inefficiency at the moment in our markets is the "central bank inefficiency". Just buy different standard deviations off the index, since CB's are actively propping up the market, and sell at new range expansion highs.

 

[OddTrader]

Hedge Fund Market Wizards - How Winning Traders Win, by Jack Schwager: " To do my vacuum cleaner, I built 5,127 prototypes. This means I had 5,126 failures. But as I went through these failures, I made discoveries. - James Dyson"

 

[endicottsteel]

I can only say from my own experience and you probably won't like the answer. I think the best way to have cut down the years of my own learning curve, would be to throw out the constant search for the "instruction booklet" from others! As soon as I quit asking other traders to tell me how to trade or how were all "supposed" to trade to be successful...I began to SEE what I consider to be the "unobvious". I had to empty my mind completely to open it up for INSIGHT! What did I empty out of my mind...moving averages...support...trend....chop...range...positive risk/reward...resistance...trend following...indicators and the way they were intended to be used ...trend line...all technical analyses...most conventional trading knowledge. I will admit that I eventually came back to some of these, but they were unintended consequences. The point is, I pretended like I was the first person in world history to attempt day trading and I had to come up with the first instruction booklet for successful day trading! I remember when I was a young Little Leaguer trying to learn the ART of hitting a baseball and everyone was telling me different things I must do to succeed...keep your elbow up...hold the bat vertical or horizontal...stick out your ass...bend your knees...choke up...don't choke up...keep your eyes on the ball, etc.. I remember not being able to move my body to hit the ball because it was so locked up. If you look at batters in the major leagues today, they have a vast array of different stances and bat locations, there isn't one or two ways to do it right. Find your own batting stance or "way to trade"...the sooner the better. I consider trading talent to be different degrees of analytical ability, intuition, and persistence...we can all improve on these qualities, but with different learning curves. I never try to teach anyone on ET how to trade better...why...because I can't help you. I would have to show you exactly how I trade and what to look for...no one on ET is going to do that and it would take a long time to learn the ART part of it...may as well begin on your own. If I told you to trade negative risk/reward ratios...don't pay attention to support or resistance...disregard trend interpretation...and left it at that...you would think I was a nutcase and you would lose money... I would've left out the most important part...the WHEN. I do trade this way often, but I consider it the ART part of trading. Everyone needs their own batting stance that takes time to evolve and no matter how ridiculous it may be. Every time someone says "I've got it now"...I wish they would've said instead...I've got something now. The former gives the impression that there is ONE way to trade out there and newbies have to figure it out...or manipulate those "in the know" to throw them a bone! It doesn't exist! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

good post crusher. I agree with all you have said. When I see people on forums throwing around lines like 'x is the only way to trade' i smile quietly to myself. A winning traders mind is open and understands there is no one right or wrong way, he takes all information in and assimilates it.

 

[William Tell]

Very Good thinking indeed, and fairly positive!

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...-traders-short-s-p.298901/page-4#post-4267333

Thanks! Must always think positive! God Bless!

 

[rajesheck]

any derivative you trade is basically figuring out or emulating its tendencies, and each one has it own tendencies, some rules can be applied to any trading instrument, but others are derivative specific. What makes it harder at times, is when market structure changes, and those tendencies that worked in the past change into new tendencies. From 1980-2010, its been mostly human tendencies and psychology at work, so it was easy to see the panic or greed in different instruments. Now the market structure has changed, where central banks can control markets using interlinked algorithms in different markets. So technology has changed the market structure. That's why volatility has died down, human players are being taken out of the mix. Its best to trade instruments where technology hasn't caught up yet to them. Maybe trade new emerging markets where exchanges are just being setup. Vietnam might be one of them, and inefficiencies run rampant. The biggest inefficiency at the moment in our markets is the "central bank inefficiency". Just buy different standard deviations off the index, since CB's are actively propping up the market, and sell at new range expansion highs.

Or may be we need to change our tendency towards trading

 

[rajesheck]

I can only say from my own experience and you probably won't like the answer. I think the best way to have cut down the years of my own learning curve, would be to throw out the constant search for the "instruction booklet" from others! As soon as I quit asking other traders to tell me how to trade or how were all "supposed" to trade to be successful...I began to SEE what I consider to be the "unobvious". I had to empty my mind completely to open it up for INSIGHT! What did I empty out of my mind...moving averages...support...trend....chop...range...positive risk/reward...resistance...trend following...indicators and the way they were intended to be used ...trend line...all technical analyses...most conventional trading knowledge. I will admit that I eventually came back to some of these, but they were unintended consequences. The point is, I pretended like I was the first person in world history to attempt day trading and I had to come up with the first instruction booklet for successful day trading! I remember when I was a young Little Leaguer trying to learn the ART of hitting a baseball and everyone was telling me different things I must do to succeed...keep your elbow up...hold the bat vertical or horizontal...stick out your ass...bend your knees...choke up...don't choke up...keep your eyes on the ball, etc.. I remember not being able to move my body to hit the ball because it was so locked up. If you look at batters in the major leagues today, they have a vast array of different stances and bat locations, there isn't one or two ways to do it right. Find your own batting stance or "way to trade"...the sooner the better. I consider trading talent to be different degrees of analytical ability, intuition, and persistence...we can all improve on these qualities, but with different learning curves. I never try to teach anyone on ET how to trade better...why...because I can't help you. I would have to show you exactly how I trade and what to look for...no one on ET is going to do that and it would take a long time to learn the ART part of it...may as well begin on your own. If I told you to trade negative risk/reward ratios...don't pay attention to support or resistance...disregard trend interpretation...and left it at that...you would think I was a nutcase and you would lose money... I would've left out the most important part...the WHEN. I do trade this way often, but I consider it the ART part of trading. Everyone needs their own batting stance that takes time to evolve and no matter how ridiculous it may be. Every time someone says "I've got it now"...I wish they would've said instead...I've got something now. The former gives the impression that there is ONE way to trade out there and newbies have to figure it out...or manipulate those "in the know" to throw them a bone! It doesn't exist! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that we can DOCUMENT our strategy if we are REALLY clear about how we are trading

 

[BONECRUSHER]

I believe that we can DOCUMENT our strategy if we are REALLY clear about how we are trading

Totally agree! My strategies look like BLUE PRINTS...but when market conditions change, it becomes more like a detective dissecting all "documentation" of a murder case...what is most probable...I think this is the tricky part that takes more intuition and experience.

 

[endicottsteel]

Totally agree! My strategies look like BLUE PRINTS...but when market conditions change, it becomes more like a detective dissecting all "documentation" of a murder case...what is most probable...I think this is the tricky part that takes more intuition and experience.

yeah and the conditioning to only trade when your blueprints says is hard to achieve. For me I only trade if certain things have happened within time windows in my 'blueprint'. Just now I have seen many things happen that line up in my blueprint but the time is wrong hence it is no trade. Overtrading kills accounts.