Why does California have so much industry/jobs?

TD80 · Feb 8, 2012

The general rule of thumb is get as close to the water as possible. The valley is hot, crowded, and polluted (but somewhat "affordable").

My feeling is, if you can't make a $1 mil house price work if you have a typical family arrangement, or a $500-$600K condo/town house price work if you're single or plan to have 0 kids, then this isn't the place for you regardless of other considerations. The sacrifice in lifestyle would be unacceptable (personally speaking) versus other places.

I live in south OC but if I had to live in L.A. my choices in order of most desirable to least desirable would be (assuming no work commute):

1. Pacific Palisades
2. Malibu (commute = death here for salarymen)
3. Beverly Hills
4. Brentwood
5. Palos Verdes Estates / Rolling Hills Estates
6. Santa Monica (watch out for CRAZY laws and left-wing nut-cases though)
7. Century City
8. Marina Del Rey
9. West Hollywood
10. Downtown / L.A. Live area

My thoughts on this thread are that there a lot of people talking about my state who, frankly, haven't either even been here (beyond a connecting flight), or haven't been here for very long.

I am not a CA native but having been here for around 7 years now (and decades worth of time living in the midwest). I can tell someone who lives/lived here for a long time versus someone who has the typical anti-CA bias (which I had also before coming here btw) that comes out of the midwest/east coast/texas. I can also tell the former natives who have legitimate complaints and have moved on.

All I can say is I hope many many more people decide this isn't the place for them because it is crowded and expensive already

.

The state is financially a microcosm for the whole country, and it is a political basket case.

Would I rather be anywhere else in the U.S. between December and April? Hell No.

Quote from Vinny1:

I currently live in Georgia and was thinking of moving with my wife and daughter to California. Home prices have come down in California. I'm not sure if it has bottomed out though. What are people like in California? How is the San Fernando Valley area, towns like Simi Valley and Canyon Country?

5yrtrader · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from dcvtss:

What about Texas?

Texas is actually an outlier in the data set, I knew it would come up. But I would bet that it holds true with in Texas too. The nicest areas of Texas, probably have higher taxes rates than the less nice areas near to each other. I would bet money that the Turtle Creek area of Dallas has higher tax rates than the areas that surround it.

My point was more that higher taxes and a "nanny state" absolute do not mean a death of industry/productivity. I am not saying that it creates industry either. The idea that if your taxes go up a couple of percentage points that you would be willing to up root everything and move to Mississippi or Indiana or China is ridiculous.

In fact providing for the health, education and basic needs of the general populous creates a population that has the ability to create the next facebook, apple or microsoft. People that are starving, dying, sick, caring for sick family members, or dumb don't do great things.

5yr

oldtime · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from TD80:

The general rule of thumb is get as close to the water as possible. The valley is hot, crowded, and polluted (but somewhat "affordable").

My feeling is, if you can't make a $1 mil house price work if you have a typical family arrangement, or a $500-$600K condo/town house price work if you're single or plan to have 0 kids, then this isn't the place for you regardless of other considerations. The sacrifice in lifestyle would be unacceptable (personally speaking) versus other places.

I live in south OC but if I had to live in L.A. my choices in order of most desirable to least desirable would be (assuming no work commute):

1. Pacific Palisades
2. Malibu (commute = death here for salarymen)
3. Beverly Hills
4. Brentwood
5. Palos Verdes Estates / Rolling Hills Estates
6. Santa Monica (watch out for CRAZY laws and left-wing nut-cases though)
7. Century City
8. Marina Del Rey
9. West Hollywood
10. Downtown / L.A. Live area

My thoughts on this thread are that there a lot of people talking about my state who, frankly, haven't either even been here (beyond a connecting flight), or haven't been here for very long.

I am not a CA native but having been here for around 7 years now (and decades worth of time living in the midwest). I can tell someone who lives/lived here for a long time versus someone who has the typical anti-CA bias (which I had also before coming here btw) that comes out of the midwest/east coast/texas. I can also tell the former natives who have legitimate complaints and have moved on.

All I can say is I hope many many more people decide this isn't the place for them because it is crowded and expensive already .

The state is financially a microcosm for the whole country, and it is a political basket case.

Would I rather be anywhere else in the U.S. between December and April? Hell No.

what's a CA native? I've heard about them but I've never actually met one. I've met some people that were born and rasied in CA (I have 3 of my own) but they don't live there anymore.

dcvtss · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from 5yrtrader:

Texas is actually an outlier in the data set, I knew it would come up. But I would bet that it holds true with in Texas too. The nicest areas of Texas, probably have higher taxes rates than the less nice areas near to each other. I would bet money that the Turtle Creek area of Dallas has higher tax rates than the areas that surround it.

My point was more that higher taxes and a "nanny state" absolute do not mean a death of industry/productivity. I am not saying that it creates industry either. The idea that if your taxes go up a couple of percentage points that you would be willing to up root everything and move to Mississippi or Indiana or China is ridiculous.

In fact providing for the health, education and basic needs of the general populous creates a population that has the ability to create the next facebook, apple or microsoft. People that are starving, dying, sick, caring for sick family members, or dumb don't do great things.

5yr

This is an interesting thread, I moved from Maryland to Austin, TX last year and a couple of observations. First as someone mentioned earlier the top talent, especially in IT definitely heads to Silicon Valley. Austin tech companies aren't able to retain any of UT's (one of the original public ivies) top tech talent, they all head to Cali, and it's not like Austin is a terrible place to live.

You are spot on with your observation that the nicest area of Texas have the highest tax rates, it's easy to correlate in TX because it is all property taxes, there's a map out there somewhere with property tax rates and the highest are in the 3 major cities and drilling down further the nice areas have higher rates. The rates are generally high compared to other states, one benefit of this however is it acts as resistance against housing bubbles.

I also agree that tax rates are not as big a factor in personal and corporate movement as is commonly thought, but living in the DC area proved to me that it is a factor, and when other things like distance are held relatively constant the lower tax area does win out. Just about every major company opening or moving operations to DC chooses Virginia.

ElCubano · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from MKTrader:

Exactly. Maybe someone visited both place in the late Fall or early Spring. Visit both in August and you'll know the difference.

yes you will.

Vinny1 · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from TD80:

The general rule of thumb is get as close to the water as possible. The valley is hot, crowded, and polluted (but somewhat "affordable").

My feeling is, if you can't make a $1 mil house price work if you have a typical family arrangement, or a $500-$600K condo/town house price work if you're single or plan to have 0 kids, then this isn't the place for you regardless of other considerations. The sacrifice in lifestyle would be unacceptable (personally speaking) versus other places.

I live in south OC but if I had to live in L.A. my choices in order of most desirable to least desirable would be (assuming no work commute):

1. Pacific Palisades
2. Malibu (commute = death here for salarymen)
3. Beverly Hills
4. Brentwood
5. Palos Verdes Estates / Rolling Hills Estates
6. Santa Monica (watch out for CRAZY laws and left-wing nut-cases though)
7. Century City
8. Marina Del Rey
9. West Hollywood
10. Downtown / L.A. Live area

My thoughts on this thread are that there a lot of people talking about my state who, frankly, haven't either even been here (beyond a connecting flight), or haven't been here for very long.

I am not a CA native but having been here for around 7 years now (and decades worth of time living in the midwest). I can tell someone who lives/lived here for a long time versus someone who has the typical anti-CA bias (which I had also before coming here btw) that comes out of the midwest/east coast/texas. I can also tell the former natives who have legitimate complaints and have moved on.

All I can say is I hope many many more people decide this isn't the place for them because it is crowded and expensive already .

The state is financially a microcosm for the whole country, and it is a political basket case.

Would I rather be anywhere else in the U.S. between December and April? Hell No.

Those 10 locations are the most expensive around the Los Angeles area. I need a house for no more than $400k.

oldtime · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from dcvtss:

This is an interesting thread, I moved from Maryland to Austin, TX last year and a couple of observations. First as someone mentioned earlier the top talent, especially in IT definitely heads to Silicon Valley. Austin tech companies aren't able to retain any of UT's (one of the original public ivies) top tech talent, they all head to Cali, and it's not like Austin is a terrible place to live.

You are spot on with your observation that the nicest area of Texas have the highest tax rates, it's easy to correlate in TX because it is all property taxes, there's a map out there somewhere with property tax rates and the highest are in the 3 major cities and drilling down further the nice areas have higher rates. The rates are generally high compared to other states, one benefit of this however is it acts as resistance against housing bubbles.

I also agree that tax rates are not as big a factor in personal and corporate movement as is commonly thought, but living in the DC area proved to me that it is a factor, and when other things like distance are held relatively constant the lower tax area does win out. Just about every major company opening or moving operations to DC chooses Virginia.

well, that's really the jist of the thread, all kidding aside, the real question is, "How do tax rates and public policy affect business?"

As stated, it's hard to separate public policy from good weather. I suppose good weather is a commodity just like any other commodity.

The dirty little secret revealed was the free state of Texas property tax.

otherwise, it's a good question, why does CA thrive when supposedly they do everything wrong? And converesly, if they are so rich, how come they are so poor?

otherwise, how do taxes affect a community?

TD80 · Feb 8, 2012

My opinion is, unless you are single, that price point is going to put you in a situation that is sub-optimal.

No I'm not saying you need to be some multi-millionaire just to live out here, but I am saying you will be shocked/disturbed/horrified at what 400K buys you if you have a family of say 4 AND you don't want to live somewhere that looks like an urban wasteland and/or you have real security concerns about your living situation. As you go east it gets hot, polluted, and "ghetto" very quickly. Then again what I consider "ghetto" may be a bit skewed so keep that in mind.

Another alternative is to rent, as you can probably rent something acceptable for around 3K-3.5K a month (assuming family of 4).

Another huge factor to consider here is if you (or significant other) are going to need to commute to a real job, because that can heavily influence your choice of property, and also it can be a huge lifestyle hit if you have to live in Rancho Cucamonga in order to get a nice family place that is affordable while commuting 2-2.5 hours EACH WAY to downtown LA (I know people who do this daily, that number is not an exaggeration for the 91...)

In short, 400K - If you're single and willing to deal with the high density urban sprawl and space constraints vs. GA (even compared to ATL you ain't seen nuthin yet), I think it would work. Family of 4 that want play money and a decent lifestyle and have to commute to 2 jobs? Forget it, give me Savannah GA or many of your other beautiful locations and I'll just crank the A/C to deal with the humidity...

Quote from Vinny1:

Those 10 locations are the most expensive around the Los Angeles area. I need a house for no more than $400k.

oldtime · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from TD80:

My opinion is, unless you are single, that price point is going to put you in a situation that is sub-optimal.

No I'm not saying you need to be some multi-millionaire just to live out here, but I am saying you will be shocked/disturbed/horrified at what 400K buys you if you have a family of say 4 AND you don't want to live somewhere that looks like an urban wasteland and/or you have real security concerns about your living situation. As you go east it gets hot, polluted, and "ghetto" very quickly. Then again what I consider "ghetto" may be a bit skewed so keep that in mind.

Another alternative is to rent, as you can probably rent something acceptable for around 3K-3.5K a month (assuming family of 4).

Another huge factor to consider here is if you (or significant other) are going to need to commute to a real job, because that can heavily influence your choice of property, and also it can be a huge lifestyle hit if you have to live in Rancho Cucamonga in order to get a nice family place that is affordable while commuting 2-2.5 hours EACH WAY to downtown LA (I know people who do this daily, that number is not an exaggeration for the 91...)

In short, 400K - If you're single and willing to deal with the high density urban sprawl and space constraints vs. GA (even compared to ATL you ain't seen nuthin yet), I think it would work. Family of 4 that want play money and a decent lifestyle and have to commute to 2 jobs? Forget it, give me Savannah GA or many of your other beautiful locations and I'll just crank the A/C to deal with the humidity...

I'm kind of a jazz fan. Oscar Peterson was playing at the Fairmont in SF. Two drink minimum which for me and my wife was $40, plus 40 parking. and I think they even had a ticket price of $20.

visited family in Indianapolis, and he was playing at Clowes Hall, tickets $6.00 free parking.

kinggyppo · Feb 8, 2012

Quote from jem:

I lived in the sarasota-bradenton area for 3 years. San Diego's weather is only similar for a few months during winter. I moved my family back.

In my opinion San Diego is far better than Florida for living, for business, for golf and surfing. From may til October if you move too quickly in So Fla, you sweat through your suit and then you squish around for the next few hours. I would re consider florida if all I had to do was play tennis on har tru courts, golf and boat. But for living and creating business there is no comparison.

But if you like flip flops and boating... Florida is much better. Ask my wife, she says it at least once a week.

CA is great for meeting people who have ideas and want to work together to make more money.

It seems back east everyone wants to keep it in the family. Its seems to be a completely different mind set.

love this area, some great re deals here imho, reminds me o
f maui and newport beach without the mind numbing price tag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Bay_(San_Diego)