Why do traders blame their firms for not succeeding?

Quote from dotslashfuture:



if I 100% followed the trading advice of a guy running a prop firm who told me to churn and I went broke, I would blame him and I would seek a lawyer to help me get my money back.
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Excuse me?

You're a professional. You have a series 7 licence. You're a grown man. How can you possibly think you're entitled to any sort of compensation from a firm that you should have known would try to promote their own interests? Here's a concept: <b> Personal Responsibility </b>

You're the kind of guy who sues Burger King over your own obesity.
 
Quote from RichSohn:

Seems like every unsuccessful trader tends to blame everything else except for himself, including the firm he worked at. Look at how many traders post negative posts out of vengeance against their old firms (who probably fired them after blowing capital).

All the books: market wizards, reminiscence of stock op, van tharp..all mention that this is a common trait among consistently LOSING traders.

To all those guys who are struggling. DON'T LOOK ELSEWHERE EXCEPT YOURSELF TO IMPROVE. You're the same trader regardless of where you work.
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How many firms have you traded at? How many different platforms have you traded on? How many different commission schedules have you traded on?

I ask because all of the above matter a hell of a lot more than you seem to know. The difference between some firms is marginal but between others it is the difference between driving a porsche and some old rubbish heap in a race that is repeated every day.

You take worldco for instance. Someone that trades there is at a HUGE disadvantage to someone that trades at a first tier firm. The are at a cost disadvantage, a speed disadvantage, a bullet dissadvantage, infastructure, support, etc. etc. No after hours, before the bell work on "themselves" is going to help them when they are trading against 1000+ guys who are all racing against them (to borrow from the analogy above in a porsche when they are trying to drive their pinto. )

Get real man.

:eek:
 
I've traded at 4 different firms, mostly due to the fact that I trade with a group, and our manager is always trying to get us better deals. They were all professional prop firms, and I have no ill will towards any of them.

I can honestly say you are mistaken with your statements. I never had any complaints about the execution systems at any of the firms I've been with. And I refuse to let that become an excuse for any bad trading on my part.

Yes, I've traded at Worldco (about 4 years ago). Back when I was there, they only had DOT and ILX, which was considered the best thing available at the time. Absolutely no problems. Your claims are utterly bogus.

Quote from Avalanche:



How many firms have you traded at? How many different platforms have you traded on? How many different commission schedules have you traded on?
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Quote from RichSohn:

I've traded at 4 different firms, mostly due to the fact that I trade with a group, and our manager is always trying to get us better deals. They were all professional prop firms, and I have no ill will towards any of them.

I can honestly say you are mistaken with your statements. I never had any complaints about the execution systems at any of the firms I've been with. And I refuse to let that become an excuse for any bad trading on my part.

Yes, I've traded at Worldco (about 4 years ago). Back when I was there, they only had DOT and ILX, which was considered the best thing available at the time. Absolutely no problems. Your claims are utterly bogus.
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You are crazy if you think all executions systems are the same and that firms have nothing to do with your success. I have been to several firms myself and their is a huge difference in execution between the firms out there. It does not matter how good you are at trading if you can't get the shares when you want them or your network/software is down because the firm is too cheap to make sure they have reliable equipment. Bad firms might not prevent a good trader from making some money but a good firm that supplies what a trader needs helps a trader make a lot more money.

You know you are in the wrong firm when you have to adjust your trading style to fit a firms slow ass system especially if you trade news items. I would rather be the guy hitting the 5K shares sitting there instead of the guy having to hit the 5K shares 40 cents up because the system is molasses.
 
I was tempted to reply this thread earlier, and now I'm compelled to participate. I've seen and been party to this argument so many times. It's not just prop firms that cause traders to fail, here's a bunch of other people and reasons:

Greenspan, Dept of Justice, CNBC, Maria Bartiromo (when she's wearing red lipstick, and a short skirt), T-1 lines going down, squirrels in Nasdaq's mainframe (remember that one in 1992?), Clinton, Bush, Gates, Ellison, Grove, Grasso, CNBC (did I mention that one?), oh hell while we're at it GE too, 10% payouts, 100% payouts, low commissions, high commissions, GSCO, MSCO, HRZG, NITE, MLCO, Ketchum, Wall Street, the planets not being aligned properly, the sun rising too early, the sun rising too fast, the sun covered by clouds, the satellite dish covered by clouds, the satellite being lost in space, bad hair day, and there's a few more that don't come too mind.

I heard a talk show not long ago, and the topic was, "Are You Underpaid?" The host said no one is underpaid. Teachers called and complained that they're underpaid, the host said "No you're not!" Why because they are paid what they accept. Unfortunately, the UFT pres has been as helpful as a hot cup of tea in the Arizona summer sun. The bottom line is you get what you deserve. If you don't like what you're getting, WALK!!!

I've met thousands and thousand of traders who blame everyone else but themselves. A close friend of mine, calls every week and tell me how bad trading is. He blames his bad relationship on his crappy trading. "Do you mean to tell me his wife makes him hit the button too soon?" Come on get with it. If you're in a bad deal, you have no one else to blame but yourself.

There are many great firms out there, and unfortunately many bad ones. You have to do your homework, and speak to the recruiter face to face. Have a list of questions and ask them, point blank, while you're staring him/her in the face. If you're unhappy, go shop. If the firm is so bad, how is it there are successful traders there? Are they being paid a salary to not trade, but look like happy traders? The prop business model is made to make money, it's not a charity. The prop trader in many cases, is given all of the tools the firm can offer to be successful (if the resources are limited then move on).

Stop blaming other people. You are 100% responsible for your actions, no one else. The amount of time you spent on this thread: posting, reading, thinking and replying, you could have been devising a plan to change the very thing you're unhappy about.....your trading. I tell it like it is, if was too harsh then you should consider another profession. If not you can change your results, all you need to do is change the way you trade.

If I can be of help, send me a P/M.


Be well.
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:



Excuse me?

You're a professional. You have a series 7 licence. You're a grown man. How can you possibly think you're entitled to any sort of compensation from a firm that you should have known would try to promote their own interests? Here's a concept: <b> Personal Responsibility </b>

You're the kind of guy who sues Burger King over your own obesity.
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you intentionally took me out of context.

This idea that the prop firms bear no responsibility for what goes on in their shops is 100% horse manure, and if you talk to the regulators they will tell you the same thing.

If a trader does well they take LOTS of responsibility don't they ! "Oh its because we have training and this and that...."

These people do not represent themselves as discount brokerages that leave you to your own decisions, they actually represent this stuff as working a job, with them as the managers who will help you. That means they take on responsibility, both legally and ethically.
 
Quote from RAMOUTAR:

I was tempted to reply this thread earlier, and now I'm compelled to participate. I've seen and been party to this argument so many times. It's not just prop firms that cause traders to fail, here's a bunch of other people and reasons:

...

I heard a talk show not long ago, and the topic was, "Are You Underpaid?" The host said no one is underpaid. Teachers called and complained that they're underpaid, the host said "No you're not!" Why because they are paid what they accept. Unfortunately, the UFT pres has been as helpful as a hot cup of tea in the Arizona summer sun. The bottom line is you get what you deserve. If you don't like what you're getting, WALK!!!

I've met thousands and thousand of traders who blame everyone else but themselves. A close friend of mine, calls every week and tell me how bad trading is. He blames his bad relationship on his crappy trading. "Do you mean to tell me his wife makes him hit the button too soon?" Come on get with it. If you're in a bad deal, you have no one else to blame but yourself.

There are many great firms out there, and unfortunately many bad ones. You have to do your homework, and speak to the recruiter face to face. Have a list of questions and ask them, point blank, while you're staring him/her in the face. If you're unhappy, go shop. If the firm is so bad, how is it there are successful traders there? Are they being paid a salary to not trade, but look like happy traders? The prop business model is made to make money, it's not a charity. The prop trader in many cases, is given all of the tools the firm can offer to be successful (if the resources are limited then move on).

Stop blaming other people. You are 100% responsible for your actions, no one else. The amount of time you spent on this thread: posting, reading, thinking and replying, you could have been devising a plan to change the very thing you're unhappy about.....your trading. I tell it like it is, if was too harsh then you should consider another profession. If not you can change your results, all you need to do is change the way you trade.

If I can be of help, send me a P/M.

Be well.
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How would you know? You're a teacher, not a trader. Plus, your spiel sounds like a phony sales pitch. "I've met thousands and thousands of traders" blah blah blah. Bullshit.
 
here's some scenarios

-your 21 year old brother goes to Ameritrade and churns his 5k account down to nothing.

-your 21 year old brother goes to a prop firm, where the owner says he will teach him how to trade with a very high success rate. The kid churns himself to zero following the system he was taught and gets kicked out.

If you can't see the difference here then you've got a problem.

In the first scenario I would simply smack the kid on the head and tell him he is stupid.

In the second scenario.....well I honestly don't want to say what I might do.
 
Caveat Emptor. Most highly speculative investment/small business opportunities fail. That's life.

What pro firms do by teaching newbies to churn, is no worse than most 'business opportunity' adds you see in any newspaper.
When doing business, one must assume that their counterpart has their own interests at heart- just like you do. Worldco is a for-profit company, not a Catholic charity. You have a series 7, so you should have expected as much.

Burger King will sell unhealthy foods to anyone who walks in to their place of business with a few dollars. A professional licenced nutritionist should express no dismay that this happens, and can't claim he was 'conned' into buying & consuming Burger King's product.
 
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