Why do they hate us?

Quote from darkhorse:


Who has censored Arab opinion? And wouldn't you agree that the cornering is of their own making? These issues go way, way back.

I think you know that I agree with your overall position in large part, but, to be fair to the Arabs, their predicament is by no means entirely of their own making. Europe drew their maps while in the process of abandoning a frequently disastrous colonial experiment. Over the same period, all of us in the West have helped to sustain corrupt, autocratic regimes, in some cases with our oil money, in other cases with direct financial grants and/or military assistance (usually for the sake of short-term political goals). The end result is visible in deeply dysfunctional political cultures - along with very high poverty rates, severe social and economic inequality, extremely low productivity, and all the rest of what ails the Middle East.

I believe things are beginning to change there, because we've finally decided to help make them change.
 
"How convenient the mostly Anti-war media forgot a main goal of the war was help eleminate terrorists."

really ? then let's talk about this article
"Company Chosen By Pentagon To Extinguish Iraqi Oil Well Fires Has History Of Supporting Terrorist Regimes"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0304/S00160.htm

what about NOT fabricate terrorism BEFORE chasing them huh ? Are they doing like some antivirus firms who experts in security field discover that they prepare sometimes the antivirus before even the virus appeared hahahaha ! Sure it is a serious and great way to do business but at the expense of who and what huh ? Do you want other WTC events to support this "Business" ?!!!

P.S.: for an antivirus firm I can give a name for sure that has been published in fact very long years ago (1996 I think in a software mag I read myself) : Norton :D

Quote from murray t turtle:


How convenient the mostly Anti-war media forgot a main goal of the war was help eleminate terrorists.

*******
We need more Arab kids like in Iraq who told the U. S. heavy armed soldiers ''NO PROBLEM !'' :cool:
 
Quote from KymarFye:


Over the same period, all of us in the West have helped to sustain corrupt, autocratic regimes, in some cases with our oil money, in other cases with direct financial grants and/or military assistance (usually for the sake of short-term political goals). The end result is visible in deeply dysfunctional political cultures - along with very high poverty rates, severe social and economic inequality, extremely low productivity, and all the rest of what ails the Middle East.


true, true- kind of like lbj's great society on an international level


"you cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. you cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. you cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. you cannot further the brotherhood of man by encouraging class hatred. you cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. you cannot build character and courage by taking away initiative and independence. you cannot help men permanently by doing what they could and should do for themselves."

-Abe Lincoln
 
Quote from darkhorse:

envy

\En"vy\, n.; pl. Envies. [F. envie, L. invidia envious; akin to invidere to look askance at, to look with enmity; in against + videre to see. See Vision.] 1. Malice; ill will; spite. [Obs.]

2. Chagrin, mortification, discontent, or uneasiness at the sight of another's excellence or good fortune, accompanied with some degree of hatred and a desire to possess equal advantages; malicious grudging;

Envy is a repining at the prosperity or good of another, or anger and displeasure at any good of another which we want, or any advantage another hath above us. --Ray.

No bliss Enjoyed by us excites his envy more. --Milton.

Envy, to which the ignoble mind's a slave, Is emulation in the learned or brave. --Pope.



Oh God, is this the much lauded darkhorse I keep hearing about?

Says a lot about [the lunacy of] this board.

 
Quote from alfonso:





Oh God, is this the much lauded darkhorse I keep hearing about?

Says a lot about [the lunacy of] this board.


just one more of those unique "original thoughts" on this board
 
Quote from darkhorse:




The US is still quite an admired country, defensibly the most admired and free country in the world. In fact, if you look at who admires us and compare it to the list of who despises us, it will say quite a lot.

The anointed have long despised America as a whole anyway- long before Iraq was even on the radar screen. They have been living in a self-congratulatory echo chamber that was sealed off to the outside world back in the sixties.

If you compare what is being said about America now to what was said about America five years ago, ten years ago, twenty years ago, the only real change you will notice is that the volume has been turned up. Cowards talk the loudest and cornered animals fight the hardest.

And as far as the UN goes, their track record speaks for itself. Giving them full sway over Iraq now would make about as much sense as reforming the public school system by handing it over to the post office. (But oh wait I forgot, the left is interested in appearances and admiration rather than credible principles and tangible results.)


Bahaha. This makes me want to puke.

"Self-congratulatory", "anointed". Hmm, sounds like someone's simply letting Tommy Sowell speak for them. Needless to say, given that Tommy misses the mark by a country mile (but like most Cons, you do get a chuckle reading him), that can only be a sign that anyone who does so has little to no idea about the issues of which he speaks.

They envy us, they're jealous, blah blah. Yawn. Try getting a clue. It really helps.

Oh well, there will always be idiots. In any case, given the massive influx of immigrants your country can expect over the coming years, and the population growth rate differential between current minorities and whites, all signs point to a big Democrat majority in the future. What a relief.
 
"What can the world do to confront the overwhelming superiority of the US air-force? Nothing more than face up to it with hatred of America, its policies and the Bush administration. It is possible that the weapon of hatred will prove more effective and more enduring than that of the American air force."

The greatest gulf

Whatever its immediate apparent outcome, the war on Iraq represents a catastrophic breakdown of the British and American imagination. We've utterly failed to comprehend the character of the people whose lands we have invaded, and for that we're likely to find ourselves paying a price beside which the body-count on both sides in the Iraqi conflict will seem trifling.

ctd - http://books.guardian.co.uk/writersoniraq/story/0,12975,939470,00.html
 
Interesting speculation on French policy and attitudes in relationship to France's dire economic and demographic situation:

http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/04/Extremesolutions.shtml

EXCERPTS:

The French economy is nearly stagnant. Most of the job creation during the last 25 years has been in government employment, not in the private sector. Taxes are too high and the regulatory burden too great; entrepreneurs are being given no incentive to create jobs, and as a result they aren't doing it.

There's also the demographic bomb: France is facing a population inversion. The birthrate in France has been well below the replacement rate for a long time now. And as life expectancy rises, with fewer babies being born, the ratio of retirees to workers will continue to rise, with a declining number of workers paying taxes to finance the pensions of an increasing number of retirees. The numbers look impossible; the French economy will collapse within twenty years if not sooner if nothing is done about it.

The only group with a high birth rate are the Muslims, who are for the most part not making any significant economic contribution to France. Needless to say, any generalization about a group will necessarily have significant exceptions, but taken as a group most of the Muslims are not integrated into French society, tend to be badly educated, are much more likely to be unemployed or to be employed in low paying jobs, and are increasingly miserable and resentful – and radical. Extreme forms of Islam are being preached in France and are becoming increasingly popular, and what they're preaching is revolution. Extrapolation of current trends will make the Muslims a voting majority in France soon, and then anything could happen. But the crisis may happen sooner, because they're smuggling and stockpiling weapons.

So right now France faces several catastrophes any of which will be fatal to France as we know it. Something needs to be done.

As long as France is an independent nation, with an independent economy and exclusively dependent on its own tax base, France is doomed. France as we know it is unsustainable. The structural and demographic problems France faces probably can't be solved short of violent revolution. The European Union may be seen in Paris as the only hope they have of escaping the trap France is in, as long as the ultimate EU system was designed correctly to make sure the French had disproportionate power in it and could thus manipulate it for the French's economic benefit. If so, they would be willing to go to nearly any lengths to make sure that the EU happened, and to make sure it was dominated by France.

All the other explanations I've come up with for French behavior were unsatisfying; they didn't seem sufficient to explain their behavior, or their apparent desperation and ruthlessness. But this one would do it; if this is what they're thinking, then they really would be willing to do the kind of things they have been. For this they'd be willing to sacrifice the UN, willing to sacrifice NATO, willing to alienate the US. For this they'd be willing to make oil deals with a torturer and sell him illicit goods, and to work to maintain him in power so he could keep torturing to his heart's content. For this they'd be willing to partner with Russia and China. For this they'd be willing to do damned near anything. The only thing that would matter would be to make sure that the final establishment of the European Union happened and that France would have the ability to dominate it. If they win that, they win everything. If they lose that, nothing else matters.
 
This article is a joke. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He's making hyperboles everywhere. Words such as "doomed" or "we have to do something about it" point in that direction.

Actually every nation that I know in the Western world is going to face a medicare crunch, not only France. While it is true that taxes are high in France, these rates are coming down, albeit slowly. The author is in self-aggrandizing mode and seems to be looking for a way to convince himself, let alone others, why France is acting the way it is. The truth is, France is not the only one acting this way. Why is it so hard to see that this war is just not popular ? Why do they have to go dig some dirt everywhere they can find it.

Also, I have no idea where he is getting his numbers for population growth rates but they are definitely not declining.
See: http://web.hhs.se/personal/suzuki/o-English/po07.html


Kymar: Maybe interesting but certainly pointless.
 
Quote from alfonso:

Oh God, is this the much lauded darkhorse I keep hearing about?

Says a lot about [the lunacy of] this board.


LOL "much lauded?"

thanks, haven't heard that one


Quote from alfonso:

Bahaha. This makes me want to puke.

"Self-congratulatory", "anointed". Hmm, sounds like someone's simply letting Tommy Sowell speak for them. Needless to say, given that Tommy misses the mark by a country mile (but like most Cons, you do get a chuckle reading him), that can only be a sign that anyone who does so has little to no idea about the issues of which he speaks.

They envy us, they're jealous, blah blah. Yawn. Try getting a clue. It really helps.

Oh well, there will always be idiots. In any case, given the massive influx of immigrants your country can expect over the coming years, and the population growth rate differential between current minorities and whites, all signs point to a big Democrat majority in the future. What a relief.


You want to puke, how intelligent.

Very good, you remembered a book title. But in actuality the term 'anointed' has been applied to high minded liberals a good ways further back than Thomas Sowell. It took root in ancient Greece, with Plato's political theory of philosopher kings. Thus the idea of intellectual royalty is roughly sixteen hundred- sorry, meant to say twenty-four hundred- years older than Tommy Sowell's book. As for the phrase 'self-congratulatory,' I didn't realize he had registered a trademark on it.

As for Sowell 'missing the mark by a country mile,' that's about as meaningful as your first statement referring to puke. One thing that makes me laugh about you guys is that you still haven't realized that rancor has no value, except perhaps as comic relief- and your bitterness has apparently overwhelmed your sense of humor, so that application can be scratched as well. Saying something derogatory about a person or an idea without backing it up with a logical argument- without even attempting to back it up- merely highlights the fact that you lack real substance and you're more interested in arousing anger. Sorry, not interested.

If you want to disagree that America is admired, envied and emulated, feel free. You can also disagree over whether Michael Jordan was a great basketball player, or whether capitalism is superior to communism, or whether the sky is blue or the grass is green.

I'll take your advice on getting a clue- do they have them at Home Depot or Target, do you know? I'll try to swing by there this afternoon on my way to the driving range.

You're right, there 'will always be idiots'. Just as there will always be bitter, angry people who think insult somehow counts as argument. Just for clarification, is there anyone specific you are referring to with that statement?

As far as your implied direct link between minorities and democrats, I have bad news. The connection is breaking, if not already broken. Democrats have taken african americans for granted for decades, and haven't given them jack to show for it. As african americans make further strides, they are going to move further away from supporting a morally bankrupt welfare state model and become more and more disgusted with the entitlement mentality. Eventually they will look back on it with horror. Their leadership is changing- you can stick a fork in hacks like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, because they're done. More importantly, minority parents are the strongest supporters of school choice in the country, mainly because they have the most to gain from it. Guess who is directly opposed to school choice? Democrats, who are forced to rail against it for fear of losing the unions (another dying force that is shrinking by the day). Black politicians have been fond of making allusions to the slave in the master's house- but now they are beginning to see the 'master' is the union dominated liberal establishment. As for asians- heck, asians already have a higher per capita income and education level than whites. Zero interest in income redistribution there. They came to the USA to get rich. And hey, let's not forget hispanics. They may have already overtaken blacks as the largest minority if I'm not mistaken. Hispanic culture is largely catholic, pro-life, pro-work ethic and pro-family. They don't trust republicans blindly but they don't trust democrats either. The jury is still out- and the democrats have little to offer there.

(By the way, just for the record I'm registered as an independent.)

I don't blame you for being bitter alfonso- your vision of the world just ain't working out. Too bad puking won't help. Just like water, character seeks its own level- as you obligingly demonstrate with your invective. Fools have no respect for wisdom and temperance. So please forgive me if I do not respect you, o wise one- I'm on my way to pick up a clue now.
 
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