Why do the Mods defend a fraud like Jack Hershey

Quote from vikana:

since it's close to Christmas, I'll take that as a complement :)

But seriously, I have never been asked to favor or edit content from any particular participant, sponsor or vendor.

As ETs history has shown, some of the moderators have gone through their learning experience "in public". I think it's useful to look at the present, and not get too stuck in the past. This goes both for moderators and individual participants. A while ago I tried to make sense of JHs methods via a public forum, but the attempt got drowned out in all the noise, so I eventually gave up.

Why would anyone waste time on a method that the originator refuses to have tracked or proven? 99+% of people like Jack, vendors or other trading systems do not work.

The onus is on the CLAIMER to prove it. The onus should NOT be for others to spend hundreds of hours chasing mythology.
 
I don't usually respond to posts you make and this thread in psychology has only refered to one substantive comment that deals with anything psychologically related to me.

But one moderator did explain why he left a thread that did not serve his needs. The noise level was too high for him. I do not see noise in threads I participate in. ET has a provision for handling this if and when it occurs.

I parsed your comments to add my views of what you said and how you reached your conclusions.

Several simple polls have been conducted over the years regarding the algorithm I use and its three applications. They have also been more personal on occasion.

Thier results indicate that 4 out of 5 people find the above mentioned unacceptable. Some of those people do something about it. That is their perogative.

sometimes when I see a thread like this I feel lick posting some substantive illustrations I have contributed in the past. So far, I haven't.

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

That was a great effort, but it was doomed to failure anyway.

I don't recall the unreferenced thread. Occasionally I have posted seriously and responsively and the entire thread is deleted. Were I not to create files in word as backups, my work could be lost. Others backup my posts as a habit and that is a good idea for them to do, in my opinion.

Anyone can choose to do what they want regarding my efforts here. Giving up on learning to become rich using an approach is not a good idea in my opinion. That applies to any approach under consideration.


Take a good, unbiased look at the Jack Hershey ATS Threads started by ScottD and bwolinsky.

Why don't I start threads? Is there a reason?

1. Everytime they start getting somewhere, you can see that the JH Methods are not net profitable.

This is a statement that is true for its author. It is not true for me as the support person contributing to the thread. My objective is to help. Most of the time I do not participate in threads that make mention of me. Why? Simply because the comment that mentions me is unfounded.

Prints and third party reviews of P/L statements and trading statements have proven otherwise. So have demos in various places. And there is nothing to the contrary regarding the applications as used by people who have put in the work.


2. Once that is determined, JH starts adding in greater iterations of optimization in an attempt to make them profitable.

The polite answer is that I try to help others by contributing a workaround for the problem they are facing. Usually, it is clear that I have not created the problem.

If anyone is beginning something, they may have to proceed step by step to the proper utuilization what they put on the table. I support that to the extent possible. Often it is not possible to contribute; I have limitations and the person fails. That is the choice of that person: to work or to fail.


3. Once it has been determined that they do not and cannot work in real-time, all of the JH acolytes chime in with their two cents,

That is true. there are a great many successful practitioners and most of them can put themselves in the position of the person having difficulty. There is also a PM netwok that is very helpful to others

Jack claims another amazing success story,

The size of the success referred to here is measured by the poster's yardstick and not my yardstick. I do not make claims but what I post is assigned the name "claim". As these people make these assignments, they neglect to do the research to dispute my comment with any facts. anyone who assigns "claim" to my comment also is obligated to assign himself the responsibility to do the work to dispute my comment. In most traditions, this is how the world works. In the formal arenas where disputes occur, it is very clear who has to prove what. I am in support of people's becoming rich in the shortest possible time. Other's choose to not follow such a path. That is their choice, of course and always

Thanking everyone profusely (especially spydertrader)

As will be pointed out next, when I post something happens. The workaround is also equally evident. It is magnificent and very productive in many public and private ways. For most people, they cannot put themselves in Spyder's shoes. There are several reasons: spyder has done the work and he did it publically and privately. Spyder deploys the medical modus to get the job done. Most people shun the work ethic of that field for several reasons. One is that it is a 24/7 job. Here you see what that means when help is requested by those doing the work. Spyder has an ethic of contributing to problem solving where there is a need in terms of time and/or capital; he is a citizen of the world in this realm. Spyder is very large compared to others posting in ET, especially the "B' people.

and the bashers descend with a vengence, rediculing yet another obvious at laying claim to something that simply is not there.

"B" people abound in ET. They ridicule that which they are ignorant of. This is their normal behavior of Fight or Flight Response and their functioning in the Bohr Effect. Taking the market's offer is unknown to you. Worse still is not recognizing its presence. The bashing , of course, is humor among those who see and take the offer to whatever extent they please. Now, as may be seen, we are finishing out the refinement and Scott is setting up an ATS for the indicators that were in vogue so many years ago. The ATS that was made avaialble at that time those many years ago also had the print of 6 months trading that was done on the ATS. Whether it was before ET's time or your time is unimportant. It happened and it is on the record.

4. More crap threads for ET, but Baron doesn't seem to care, so why should anyone else?

The hit rate on the collective threads this year is at about 2,000,000 million hits per year. And this is those people in a ratio of 1 to 5 in terms of those who accept the value of the threads. There is zero bashing in any of those threads. For the owners of ET, the hits and the resource value of ET to learners doing the work in those threads and using those threads is a significant business advantage.

I believe in the value of ET as a resource and as an archive. I do not believe in the orientation of "B" people and I feel the OCD behavior of your colleagues is unecessary and uncalled for. There is a lot that the moderators and the owners know that you do not. Why you made the choices you and those like you made is not my business nor my care.

What the threads say and support is not avaiable to you because of your choice to not work. Choosing to work allows the experiences to differentiate the mind like a scale of notes for a pianist. you chose to not have a mind building experience like what a student of the piano gets by doing the practice drills in their many forms to gain the expertise by repeated experiences.

Too bad.


 
You don't make claims? Then what's this?

"I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice."
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=912447&highlight=reach+goal+3x#post912447

Long ago Madoff was thought by some to be a fraud because he returned something like 10% a year consistently.... yet you claim you routinely make 3X daily range. What does that make you, Jack?

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2232147>
Quote from jack hershey:

I do not make claims but what I post is assigned the name "claim"
 

Attachments

"B" people? Who are you to label anyone given all the ridiculous unsupported claims you've made here?

Hey... what happened to your promise to your former IBD group to turn $10 thousand into $1million in 100 days?
http://www.mediafire.com/?1gi2qygm3yh

You've denied making that promise but the link is to a recording of you yourself speaking the words.

Just like you don't make claims LOL. Sure Jack.

Quote from jack hershey:

Spyder is very large compared to others posting in ET, especially the "B' people.

"B" people abound in ET.
 
Quote from CET:

It is amazing that people spend their time on what others are doing instead of using their time to improve their own trading ability.

You are right we shouldn't spend all our time on others. I don't think I have ever criticized the man previously but seriously I have been trading for a long time and feel I must chime in. I draw a trendline once in a while but I think it is nonsense to think that there are always lines to be drawn that one can profit on nonstop by always being in the market. In fact I think it's downright crazy.
I have been exposed to some extremely great traders in my career (million dollar traders year after year) and they all have one thing in common. Yes you guessed it they don't trade Hersheys method. This is not evidence of Hershey being a fraud, but to me trading for so long and having had a great career I would never recommend Hersheys system to anyone.
 
Quote from Albert Cibiades:

Aren't you confusing morality with making money? If he leads traders astray, isn't that to your advantage? If everone understood market mechanics who would you ever find dumb enough to trade against you? So praise Jack. Encourage newbies to study him. Study him yourself and post specious fabulous results using his terminology.

I wonder why this doesn't come up more often in all these Hershey threads.

The best gift ever given to an experienced futures trader is Jack Hershey. Jack Hershey gives hope to the naive. Not just the run of the mill naive, but so naive they believe he makes 3X daily range. It doesn't get any more naive than that. Naive traders buy when they should sell. Naive traders sell when they should buy. It's to your advantage to have as many naive traders at the table as possible in order to increase the odds of one being on the opposite side of your trade.
 
ROTFLMAO!!!! You're the one who's naive to even suggest that it's the "best gift ever given to an experienced futures trader." In the scheme of things the Hershey followers who actually trade are insignificant and they're all so confused (like you) that their trades probably cancel each other out more than they form a unified block that buys when they should really sell, etc.
Quote from hughb:

I wonder why this doesn't come up more often in all these Hershey threads.

The best gift ever given to an experienced futures trader is Jack Hershey. Jack Hershey gives hope to the naive. Not just the run of the mill naive, but so naive they believe he makes 3X daily range. It doesn't get any more naive than that. Naive traders buy when they should sell. Naive traders sell when they should buy. It's to your advantage to have as many naive traders at the table as possible in order to increase the odds of one being on the opposite side of your trade.
 
Couldn't agree more.

People like Trader666 are just too ignorant to understand that the mkts need people like J Hershey. Trader666 has such a huge ego that he can't see past his own grievances to see the greater good. Hershey is one cog, but add all those cogs together and you got a lot of naive and stupid noobs all lined up to throw their money away into the mkts.

Quote from hughb:

I wonder why this doesn't come up more often in all these Hershey threads.

Jack Hershey gives hope to the naive. It's to your advantage to have as many naive traders at the table as possible in order to increase the odds of one being on the opposite side of your trade.
 
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