Why do Republican Voter Love being Lied to?

[Mav88]

Gringinho

The problem with your viewpoint is that your fail to understand that most politics is local and pragmatic.

It would be just as silly for me to discuss the plots and plans of American communists when discussing the antics of Pelosi and Obama.

All this neo-conservative stuff is just for people who love conspiracies. Bush invaded Iraq probably for reasons other than the advice he was getting. That's the only policy of significance, 99% of us have noticed little change in our liberties here and plan of world domination will have any chance of implementation. I would be willing to bet your life is pretty much the same as the pre-Iraq days as well.

On to things that matter, like the massive social welfare goals of people like Obama. Of far more impact to ordinary people than any of your dreamt of neo-con conspiracies.

 

[Gringinho]

Mav88,

it is not "conspiracies" - it is the ideology of Neo-conservatism I am talking about. We can witness the practical policies which are the effect from strong influence from neo-conservatives - sometimes direct and dominating effects during the last presidency.

That is not any conspiracy - but cause and effect... cause being ideology, and effect the various legislations and practical decisions, measures.

I am not saying they are having hidden meetings and plotting, they are in fact quite public and write public articles, participate in interviews and discussions. Of course, this is part of any democracy and they should not be censored as such. The problem is when they are being misrepresented as "the conservatives" - and when they are given almost exclusive control of many practical decisions - such as those being rushed during the Bush presidency - to give them control without oversight or accountability.

That has totally corrupted the US practical politics and decisions - interactions with the rest of the world, as well as social structuring of domestic society.

The accumulated result has been a much stronger approximation towards a totalitarian and authoritarian police state - and the main influencer for this has been the quick restructuring during the shocking events on people.

Those are FACTS - not any "conspiracy theories."
Now, the systemic look at this situation looks at those processes, components and influencers ... which are terrorists, Bush administration, world economy, Neo-conservative ideology etc. Then the assessment is how it all connects to varying degrees - and the main reason for the new legislation, diminished civil liberties - is the Neo-conservative ideology --- which directly supports strong restrictive legislation and pre-emptive actions. That is their core belief - and that they alone are the ones "who can show responsibility and take the lead."

Now, when CNN continuously presents these ideological commentators and thinkers as simply "conservatives" - they are grossly misrepresenting them, because they are in fact extremes on the far right-wing of the political spectrum, and they are rooted in a belief system for their policies and projecting this on all facets of society - making them political radicalists. Those are simple facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism


Sure, politics are implemented by local politicians and federal politicians in Congress and the Senate - but most of the cohesive argumentative thinking, deduction with general policy conclusions and shaping of the entire ideology is coming from the leading ideologists of the various belief systems. Policy doctrines are comprised of ideology, practical decisions and general guidelines.

These are all facts and have nothing with blaming single individuals - but is a look at the compounded effect of the whole system.
Sure, James Burnham and Irving Kristol have laid the foundations for the ideology, and then others have fleshed it more out, adapted it to current situations - and yet others have taken the reasoning into practical political decisions - or continuous influencing on society.

The compounded effect is undeniable and clear.

 

[Mav88]

The accumulated result has been a much stronger approximation towards a totalitarian and authoritarian police state - and the main influencer for this has been the quick restructuring during the shocking events on people.

Let's just take this one for now, like many left leaning folks you throw out sophistries faster than anyone can react. My civil liberties haven't been affected significantly in the last 20 years, yet you make sweeping generalizations like this. List out the specifics here for people living here in the US, tell me exactly how my life has been changed due to this restructuring towards a police state.

 

[Gringinho]

Yes, I am working on a post where I will explain what political radicalism is, and how polarization works as well as how this whole left-right spectrum works. It is clearly not understood here, I see.

I will do so in another thread - because it goes deep into political science and philosophy. Just now I'm a little busy so it will have to wait some hours, but around Asian markets - New Zealand RTH I will make that thread and post.


It boils down to the fundamental differences and political evolution - polarization - radicalism and populism, the differences and the core of radical political ideologies... I will also include Islamism and extremism.

 

[Mav88]

You are overthinking the problem, academics love to do that probably because they have nothing else to do. It is akin to extreme curve fitting in developing a trading system, so over idealized and optimized that it is useless.

 

[Gringinho]

Mav88,

don't worry - I know what curve fitting is, and I developed professional prediction models for some time using MLP neural networks for spot markets.

I'm a bit pressed for time this Sunday, so I'll be back.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from Gringinho:

Wow,
I was unaware of this organization...
But Andrew C. McCarthy was on "Beyond the Politics" on CNNI saturday night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_C._McCarthy

That organization is just off the charts... hehe, what a bunch of wackos. I mean... on last Friday, Jonah Goldberg was on Larry King... and he is intimate with the GPS Think Tank neo-con program hosted by as well as the National Review. He is a really stark anti-European, like many orthodox Jews are... and I he is a neo-con at heart, and frequently support various supremacist and elitist views on colonization and censorship, meritocracy etc. The guy is a despicable fucker in my view...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Goldberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_J._Wattenberg (neo-con host of GPS Think tank - and Goldberg and him worked together at the AEI)

There are so many wacko ideologists at AEI - American Enterprise Institute... it is beyond fathoming. Why are taxpayer money wasted on crazy fuckers like this who come up with the most radical aggressive ideas and policies possible? They reverberate special interests and hatred against mortal enemies - like the Israeli plight in the Middle East. It is just so fucked up...

Goldberg criticizes totalitarian socialism - but at the same time he is touting totalitarian police states and being authoritarian with his neo-con support. That is just like Bertram Myron Gross warned of in his 1980 book "Friendly Fascism"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertram_Myron_Gross

The parallels to the neo-cons and Ingsoc are totally frightening - but then the founders and influencers of neo-cons are former Trotskyists who later became strongly anti-Communists - like Irving Kristol and James Burnham.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Kristol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Burnham
http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/sempa_burnham1.html

The ideas of "all out global war" were especially strong from Burnham in his column in the National Review called "Third World War".
The very ideas of James Burnham were the inspiration for George Orwell's "1984" masterpiece...
So - if anyone haven't gotten my little jokes about Ingsoc and Room 101 by now... well, then you'll never get it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingsoc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_101


Another "crazy US organization"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Democracies

What - are neoconservatives the only conservatives that CNN can try and pass on as "conservatives"?
Gimme a break - these guys are seriously aggressive radical elitist crazy-munching ideologists...
Their ideas are some of the most extreme far-right there is... they are for total police state and removing any civil rights, as well as pre-emptively attacking anyone - AND waging a global war of ideas against media and the Internet. They hide behind names as "Defense of Democracies" - but instead they are about destroying nations so that they can rebuild them to fit their ideas.

I find it ... I don't know...
Seriously, there is something so weird and mind-boggling about the US mass media right now. I doubt anyone who feeds off purely US news can be objective - because it's all so out of whack with the rest of the world. It is crazy, just total loonie-bin crazy...

The state of US politics is truly depressing - and the fact that people are not even aware that the "1984" police state was inspired by the very ideas of those who have been in power for the last presidency... well, now we see that Ingsoc is possible, and Bush and the neo-cons proved it... total madness and domestic suppression as well as outwards oppression --- just crazy and saddening stuff.

Goldberg is the ultimate mama's boy. Nobody would have ever heard of that putz if his sow of a mother hadn't stuck her nose into the Clinton-Lewinsky affair. She was literally his ticket to fame.

 

[Mav88]

Gringinho,

You still don't get it, I don't want a treatise deep into poly sci and philo, I already told you that all that is crap. Nothing personal but it's just like economics theory, mostly human created delusion.

I want the data and not some lame ass conspiracy theory. You said that my civil rights were changed significantly as we are steered towards a police state. Just list out exactly the practical consequences on my life in terms of my rights.