Why do "profitable" traders take the time to train people remotely and for a fee?

[ArcticTrader]

Quote from monty21:

Why would a consistently profitable trader take the time to create a website with videos and chat rooms? That to me sounds like a waste of time. If I was making consistent money 75% of the time and gradually increasing my positions, I would eventually be making some serious cash. I used to trade at a prop desk and saw the head trader/owner make about $5,000 (which for him is nothing now) on average 80% of the days. I've also heard from him that many of his buddies in NYC consistently have $100,000 days (on a 5,000,000+ accounts though). For this reason, why would someone take the time away from working on their trading to achieve some of this success (a $5,000,000 account) and instead charge $50 to $300 a month to teach new traders? Time is money and this doesn't make sense.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Some of these guys are pure charlatans who can't really trade all that well themselves, and just want to milk people for money. Their motivation is obvious... most beginners won't see through these guys for months, sometimes even years.

As for the others, there are actually a number of truly decent people out there who really do try to honestly teach traders some good basic principles... I have attended a few webinars and a couple of chat rooms run by these types of people in the past. Unfortunately, I soon left because I realized that they really weren't all that good.

These people spend their time teaching and charging people a fee because it makes financial sense for them to do so, which means that overall they can't be the world's best traders. If they were, they would be raking in enough money that no amount of training fees would be worth their time. Can you see George Soros selling training DVDs on the internet? I can't.

Some of these guys do make reasonable money from their own trading, but from the few that I have seen, most of them seem to be one-trick ponies that know a few limited setups or trading strategies and can pull a small amount of money out of the market every day... nothing spectacular though, and certainly nothing like $100,000. Most of them seem to make anywhere from $1000 to $3000 per day, which means that it's still worth their time to try to teach others and pull in an extra $500k per year from that. One guy that I know of runs a room with hundreds of students charging each of them $300 per month, yet is only able to pull out roughly $1000 from the market each day in his own live account. Do the math and you'll see how that works.

There is nothing wrong with any of this, by the way... as I said, a lot of these guys are truly good people and aren't trying to scam anyone... but they can't teach you what they don't know, and if you want to learn how to make the big money you'll have to look elsewhere because these guys clearly don't know how.

The bottom line is that the best in the world do not teach, they just perform. You should always be careful about anything you learn from someone who is willing to sell you their time, because by definition they are at best a B-class trader.

 

[monty21]

Quote from Spectra:

I don't know about that GabbyJay.

Phil Jackson the Lakers coach works for free?

Uh oh no he does not. Wait.

The law professors at Yale Law school teach for free because they want to prove to the world they are successful?

Ooops no, I am wrong.

I guess I should not disagree with you.

Oh wait I found one.

Monty21 does work for free. It is right here in his resume. It said he once tried to apply for a shelf stocking job at Walmart but they felt he was not qualified enough.

So he agreed to take the 56 month internship for no pay.

Unfortunately he lost out to Beanie Bumpkin who did get the job.

So now Monty pokes fun at professional traders all day.

Successfully,

Alex L. Wasilewski
Co-Founder & Head Trader
Trades That Work
www.puretick.com
1-877-GOLONG1 (1-877-465-6641)

WTF are you talking about? Walmart lol? Okay Spectra... I don't try to insult "professional" traders. Do not call yourself a professional... I doubt there are many pros on ET anyhow, it's just a public forum on trading. It's useful for newer guys but not seasoned vets that take in thousands a day.

And professional traders don't waste their time on ET everyday, disputing their services legitimacy. You don't see the T3 advertisers debate on ET with some random guys on a daily basis... only you.

To update some of you guys, I am actually trading for a new firm as a trainee again... No initial contribution, no financial risk and even a small base salary. Couldn't ask for anything more.

BTW Spectra, how do the negative returns of your managed fund feel after the market has rallied for the past 5 months?

 

[Spectra]

I think all teachers are definitely con artists.


*********
Geoff Preston
Co-Admin - PureTick.com

 

[Spectra]

Quote from monty21:

To update some of you guys, I am actually trading for a new firm as a trainee again...

Great guys.

Now I can go to sleep. Cartman---no wait 3 card montyman is a trainee.

I missed the 6:00PM news. Sorry, Cartman is a South Park character. I got you confused withe the cartoon.

Here is another piece of advice asswipe. You do not get to tell me what I call myself. You have not earned the right to tell me ANYTHING I CAN OR CAN NOT DO. THIS IS NOT THE TALIBAN---PUNK.

GO GET THE COFFEE FOR YOUR BOSS AND LEAVE THE PROS ALONE.


We had a great Fed Day.

Successfully,

Alex L. Wasilewski
Co-Founder & Head Trader
Trades That Work
www.puretick.com
1-877-GOLONG1 (1-877-465-6641)

 

[Spectra]

Quote from ArcticTrader:

If they were, they would be raking in enough money that no amount of training fees would be worth their time. Can you see George Soros selling training DVDs on the internet? I can't. they are at best a B-class trader.

Kiss your stupid advice goodbye, jerk.

Lewis Borsellino had a trading and teaching room for a few years.

Linda Raschke still teaches.

George Soros is very upset you called him a class B trader. But then again he is not as GREAT AS ARCTICTRADER MAN.

ARE YOU KIDDING? ARCTIC TRADER? ARE YOU AN ICE ROAD TRUCKER? DO YOU AND SARAH LOOK AT RUSSIA ALL DAY?

SORRY I DIGRESS.

DO YOU WANT TO BUY A GEORGE SOROS AUDIO BOOK? IT IS DISCOUNTED. HE IS A SCAMMER AND A POOR TRADER AND NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE MONEY TRADING SO LOOK WHAT HE IS SELLING ON AMAZON.

The New Paradigm for Financial Markets (Unabridged)
George Soros

List Price: $22.95
Our Price: $16.06
Promotional Price:* $12.04 (That's 25% off!)

HMMM.

NEXT TIME YOU OPEN YOUR ASS/MOUTH MAKE SURE THERE ISN'T AN ALEX AROUND TO POINT OUT WHAT A MORON YOU ARE.

Successfully,

Alex L. Wasilewski
Co-Founder & Head Trader
Trades That Work
www.puretick.com
1-877-GOLONG1 (1-877-465-6641)

 

[ArcticTrader]

Quote from Spectra:

Kiss your stupid advice goodbye, jerk.

Lewis Borsellino had a trading and teaching room for a few years.

I doubt it was a primary source of income.

Linda Raschke still teaches.

I doubt it is a primary source of income.

George Soros is very upset you called him a class B trader. But then again he is not as GREAT AS ARCTICTRADER MAN.

I never called George Soros a B-class trader. He doesn't write books or teach anything as a primary source of income. All of these traders are traders first, and then authors/teachers as an afterthought. They are almost certainly doing it to give back, not to make money.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my original statement: Any trader who teaches or runs a site as a primary source of income and makes more from that than he/she does from their actual trading is a B-class trader. Particularly if they are willing to sell their time for only a few thousand dollars a week, since a lot of top traders make a lot more than that. Good luck hiring George Soros to sit with you for a week for a few grand. I don't really consider any of the afore-mentioned examples to be B-class traders, as you tried to imply.

ARE YOU KIDDING? ARCTIC TRADER? ARE YOU AN ICE ROAD TRUCKER? DO YOU AND SARAH LOOK AT RUSSIA ALL DAY?

It is amusing that you seem to think that insulting my anonymous handle is somehow going to get to me.

DO YOU WANT TO BUY A GEORGE SOROS AUDIO BOOK? IT IS DISCOUNTED. HE IS A SCAMMER AND A POOR TRADER AND NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE MONEY TRADING SO LOOK WHAT HE IS SELLING ON AMAZON.

As I have clarified, not everyone who teaches or writes a book is a B-class trader.

HMMM.

NEXT TIME YOU OPEN YOUR ASS/MOUTH MAKE SURE THERE ISN'T AN ALEX AROUND TO POINT OUT WHAT A MORON YOU ARE.

This wonderful conversation has reminded me of exactly why I don't post much on these forums. From this point forward I will limit myself to discussing only technical issues related to brokers or software, since that is all that these boards are really good for. I also won't be responding to anything further you say on this thread.

I might finish this post by giving you some advice. Since you run a trading room, one can only assume that a large part of the reason you are posting on these forums is to gain new converts. (Either that or you just enjoy getting into pointless arguments with strangers for no reason.) Either way, I can assure you that the attitude you have been displaying here is not doing anything to help your business. Last time I checked, one of the primary qualities of a good trader was having emotional balance and not going off the rails at the slightest provocation. It seems to be very easy to get under your skin, which isn't exactly what I would call an inspiring sign if you are trying to present yourself as a wise and serene guru who is out to help other traders. I can assure you that the volume of negative posts in this and other threads against you are probably only a small percentage of the people that are reading your angry posts and being turned off, thereby hurting your business. Had you responded to my post with the same arguments in a more civilized manner, you probably would have achieved a better result for yourself in terms of public standing and image, which I assume are important to you since you are trying to attract people to your room. Even a newbie trader isn't going to be particularly excited about signing up with someone who displays your level of vitriol on a constant basis, so you are probably losing some business as a result. Food for thought.

 

[StevenBruce]

Nobody seems to give this much thought.

Chat room vendors have the best of both worlds. They take the fees that customers pay them and they trade. The chat room vendor isn't taking risk, THE CUSTOMERS ARE TAKING ALL THE RISK FOR THEMSELVES, AND FOR THE CHAT ROOM MODERATOR. Think about it for a moment. They can take big risk and if they win, they are real professionals. If they lose (and you follow them into the dumper) well, whats the worst that can happen? I'll tell you....they go away, change business ID and come back again under another name.

So really this game is for the naive and the losers who follow these folks like lemmings. As long as the chat room moderator is lucky the room continues and those who can't take the heat fall by the wayside (its their fault after all that they can't follow instructions right).....and of course it aint black & white, there are plenty of people willing to jump off the cliff with the moderator, and too lazy to find good education elsewhere.

Whats interesting is the way some of you engage in dialogue with these yahoos like its going to matter.....hahahaha...you aren't going to change a thing and Spectra (or whatever friggin handle they have adopt) knows it well.....thats why he can tell you folks to go screw yourselves.

 

[Spectra]

Quote from ArcticTrader:

I doubt it was a primary source of income.

You can't argue both ways. There are no exceptions and excuses. Once you start generating 5+ income streams, none of them are your primary source of income. They are all excellent sources.

You basically just stated that profitable individuals don't look for other ways to make money. Hmmm ok? I recently met a pro poker player. She plays tournaments for money, has a deal with go daddy, has a deal with poker stars, ept and various other ventures. She is one hell of a player but by your rational, she must be a fraud for taking advantage of business opportunities presented to her.

**********************
Geoff Preston - Co-Admin
PureTick.com

 

[Vespasian]

Quote from austinp:

<i>"Why would a consistently profitable trader take the time to create a website with videos and chat rooms? That to me sounds like a waste of time."</i>

I'll answer your question in detail, if you'll first answer mine.

With all your noted experience rubbing elbows with mega-successful traders, why are you moderating a public message board instead of honing your skills as a trader? During live trading hours, to boot.

That to me sounds like a monumental waste of time.

LOL

Remove foot from mouth

 

[ArcticTrader]

Quote from Spectra:

You can't argue both ways. There are no exceptions and excuses. Once you start generating 5+ income streams, none of them are your primary source of income. They are all excellent sources.

You basically just stated that profitable individuals don't look for other ways to make money. Hmmm ok? I recently met a pro poker player. She plays tournaments for money, has a deal with go daddy, has a deal with poker stars, ept and various other ventures. She is one hell of a player but by your rational, she must be a fraud for taking advantage of business opportunities presented to her.

**********************
Geoff Preston - Co-Admin
PureTick.com

Since you seem to be a little more courteous than Alex, I will respond to you. For the record, if you read my original post you will see that I never said that all educators are frauds. In fact, I specifically said that a number of them are great people who truly try to help traders - I have heard a few of them speak and can attest to that. Having said that, you can't argue the fact that someone who is only making $1000 a day from their trading while making 3 times that from their education probably isn't in the top tier of traders, especially considering that there are traders out there that make tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands per day. If someone is willing to give up trading on a daily basis in order to educate (something that a lot of these guys do), they can't be in the top tier (which after all is what A-class means).

"B-class" doesn't mean that they are terrible traders - in fact, many of them are profitable, may make hundreds of thousands per year, and may in fact be millionaires - but they are just not in the same league as the best traders in the world, and therefore there must be some holes in their game, and/or things that could be improved. It is obvious that they are missing something that the best traders in the world are getting. That's why I said to be somewhat careful about what they are teaching you, and to be skeptical of anything you learn from them. (That's actually good advice no matter who is teaching you something.) I'm not sure why this is so controversial - it seems obvious to me.

The bottom line is that the best traders in the world would never sell a week of their time and give up trading to sit down with someone for a few thousand dollars. B-class doesn't mean "bad", it just means not the best.

(And incidentally, none of the things you mentioned for that poker player have anything but a minor incremental drag on her time, if that... having a deal with poker sites is not the same thing as giving up actual trading in order to teach. If she gave up actually playing poker or severely reduced the time that she played in order to become a poker educator and made less money instead, I would have serious questions about her ability - because that is exactly what a lot of chat room gurus are doing when compared to the best traders in the world.)