... thank you for your contributions to the thread.
Why do people use Volume, Range and Tic charts?
- Thread starter fearless9
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Years of screen time has confirmed to me that you could use any type of bar that floats your boat, and that volume differential per day WILL have an effect on your perception of the volume bar. You can study volume till snot comes out of your ears, price is not the effect of volume, volume is the effect of price. Put a simple line chart up and throw your volume studies out... and make a few trades. Betcha you'll find that the bars you're comfortable with are nothing more than a blue blanket. But I digress.
I know what it is you seek, which nothing more than clarity in price action. An understanding that makes sense to you. Which is what it all comes down to really.
I agree with your last couple sentences. I found what works for me in 12 years of screen time.
I disagree with your view of volume bars/volume per day but then we all can't agree on everything. That would be no fun at all.
It's also obvious that there are differnent variations on the theme of price that work for a variety of others as well. The foundation of these are quite similar.
Quote from j0hnb0ne:
Really you should read what you wrote.
You can just use your own Example for Range Bar and replace the word Range with Volume.
I'll just let the rest of the guys decide if you are coherent.
One last time . . .
Example: In a CVB Chart (Constant Volume Bar chart), a new bar is created after a user defined number of contracts/shares have been traded. [Notice how price isn't mentioned]
Example: In a Range Bar Chart, the range bars just look at price, [see how the word PRICE is stated here] the bar does not close at a specific time or number of contracts/shares traded but closes when a user defined range is completed based on price, then a new bar opens.
Now, if you still can't see the difference between the two above statements, I'm sorry but I'm unable to make it any clearer or simpler.
This is your original post
Base on your reasoning, both these bar types aggregate trades along a certain dimension base on user defined criterias. One aggregates trades along price base on user define range. The other aggregates trades along volume, again base on user define volume.
Base on your logic, how can you argue in your own words that range bars add noise into an already noisey environment ? If they do, so do volume bars !!!
I hope this is simple enough.
This is your last post
Looks like you still cannot see the inconsistency of your logic.
Base on your reasoning, both these bar types aggregate trades along a certain dimension base on user defined criterias. One aggregates trades along price base on user define range. The other aggregates trades along volume, again base on user define volume.
Base on your logic, how can you argue in your own words that range bars add noise into an already noisey environment ? If they do, so do volume bars !!!
I hope this is simple enough.
The 411 onf ProfLogic:
Fool You Once
What is it about ET that draws out all of the hustlers and hosebags?
Fool You Once
What is it about ET that draws out all of the hustlers and hosebags?
... and another group of traders who were pleased as punch
Not!
Jeez, no wonder he was so adamant about making that 1 YM PT in the trade were he bought the downtrend and actually lost about 20 YM PTS, he can't charge $300 for his telephone consultations or $3,000 for his seminars.
LOL
Not!
Jeez, no wonder he was so adamant about making that 1 YM PT in the trade were he bought the downtrend and actually lost about 20 YM PTS, he can't charge $300 for his telephone consultations or $3,000 for his seminars.
LOL
... and finally, here's a quote from opm8, on page 22 of the thread Proflogic method - successful?
The thread is closed, so I had to copy & past the post, but I believe the post has relevance to what we're doing on this thread ... always remember, caveat emptor.
***
opm8
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 575
05-17-05 06:46 PM
Well, I gave up $300 for access to Prof's site and I can say conclusively it's been a colossal waste of my time.
Here's why:
-Like others have said he flip-flops on his "perfect rules" all the time. Maybe he's settled on a system for now but I guarantee he'll change it in a month or two. Since September his rules have changed three times, all major revisions, barely recognizable from the last iteration. He's constantly making changes.
-His rules are convoluted to the point that you can interpret them however you like. "Simple" is the last word I'd use to describe them. "Perfect" is a joke, in this regard. Bill, however, makes it sound like it's a one-sentence system that any ol' idiot can follow.
-What he says in the chatroom is unbelievably vague. Definitely not too close to what his rules pages say (which, by the way, have gaping holes regarding entries and exits). If you question him or a "system" entry he flies into a rage instantly and brow-beats you. If you ask him to post a live trade he'll go off on you for 15 minutes straight. All the while he's implying you're a complete idiot for not understanding his "perfect" and "simple" rules. He never has and never will post a single live trade.
-NOT A SINGLE PERSON in the chat room makes money. I've PM'd countless people in the room and they all say the same thing. "Still learning," "not sure of the entries," etc. I signed up for the website in Sep/04, and the chat room has been open since about Feb. If the system were actually simple, people would be making money by now. Someone would be. They're not.
On the plus side, he is rather generous with his time, accepting phone calls to help anyone with trading. Now that he's charging several thousand a pop for his seminar, though, it all makes "perfect" sense to me.
I don't believe Bill trades the system he teaches (if he trades at all). He claims he only goes for 2 points a day and then has a neat little section on his site that spells out how riches can be yours if you scale up your contract size while making 2 pts a day. If that were the case Prof should be worth in the 9 figure range, having supposedly traded this way for a decade. Bill is full of BS.
Prof has been around ET for a long time and has been part of countless threads. Usually, people attack him and his methods. How come no one has EVER stepped up and said "yes, I've learned Bill's system and make money with it." Shit, I'd be all over anyone like a rabid dog who dared question Bill's qualifications if I had made money using his ideas.
The one thing I thank him for is a relatively cheap lesson in snake oil sales. I know that I will not learn trading from someone selling something. Since leaving this crap behind the system I've worked out for myself, with no one's help, is coming along very nicely. Thanks, Bill! Hope you make lots of money from your seminar suckers.
--opm8
Notes:
1. The highlights in bold are mine.
2. I don't know opm8 from Adam and we have never had a conversation regarding ProfLogic previously. But it speaks volumes that we have had the exact same reaction to him.
The thread is closed, so I had to copy & past the post, but I believe the post has relevance to what we're doing on this thread ... always remember, caveat emptor.
***
opm8
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 575
05-17-05 06:46 PM
Well, I gave up $300 for access to Prof's site and I can say conclusively it's been a colossal waste of my time.
Here's why:
-Like others have said he flip-flops on his "perfect rules" all the time. Maybe he's settled on a system for now but I guarantee he'll change it in a month or two. Since September his rules have changed three times, all major revisions, barely recognizable from the last iteration. He's constantly making changes.
-His rules are convoluted to the point that you can interpret them however you like. "Simple" is the last word I'd use to describe them. "Perfect" is a joke, in this regard. Bill, however, makes it sound like it's a one-sentence system that any ol' idiot can follow.
-What he says in the chatroom is unbelievably vague. Definitely not too close to what his rules pages say (which, by the way, have gaping holes regarding entries and exits). If you question him or a "system" entry he flies into a rage instantly and brow-beats you. If you ask him to post a live trade he'll go off on you for 15 minutes straight. All the while he's implying you're a complete idiot for not understanding his "perfect" and "simple" rules. He never has and never will post a single live trade.
-NOT A SINGLE PERSON in the chat room makes money. I've PM'd countless people in the room and they all say the same thing. "Still learning," "not sure of the entries," etc. I signed up for the website in Sep/04, and the chat room has been open since about Feb. If the system were actually simple, people would be making money by now. Someone would be. They're not.
On the plus side, he is rather generous with his time, accepting phone calls to help anyone with trading. Now that he's charging several thousand a pop for his seminar, though, it all makes "perfect" sense to me.
I don't believe Bill trades the system he teaches (if he trades at all). He claims he only goes for 2 points a day and then has a neat little section on his site that spells out how riches can be yours if you scale up your contract size while making 2 pts a day. If that were the case Prof should be worth in the 9 figure range, having supposedly traded this way for a decade. Bill is full of BS.
Prof has been around ET for a long time and has been part of countless threads. Usually, people attack him and his methods. How come no one has EVER stepped up and said "yes, I've learned Bill's system and make money with it." Shit, I'd be all over anyone like a rabid dog who dared question Bill's qualifications if I had made money using his ideas.
The one thing I thank him for is a relatively cheap lesson in snake oil sales. I know that I will not learn trading from someone selling something. Since leaving this crap behind the system I've worked out for myself, with no one's help, is coming along very nicely. Thanks, Bill! Hope you make lots of money from your seminar suckers.
--opm8
Notes:
1. The highlights in bold are mine.
2. I don't know opm8 from Adam and we have never had a conversation regarding ProfLogic previously. But it speaks volumes that we have had the exact same reaction to him.
First, you are trying to teach logic to retired logic teacher. You are in a no win situation.
Range Bar Charts - user defined price range (no user defined volume)
Constant Volume Bar Charts - user defined volume (no user defined price range)
Since these chart types, by sheer definition, are not the same your assessment of there sameness in regards to clarity is incorrect.
Adding noise was not the best choice of words to describe what I meant initially. Let me clarify by saying that, IMO, Range bars eliminate some clarity that pure price creates in its bar-by-bar movement for me. I can see where Range Bars could be a benefit for some that are more directional traders but I personally am meticulous on strict objective entries and exits. I know that "price break-outs" fail regularly from making HH's or LL's so logically to base bars on the same criteria should have the same or close consistency.
Do you trade currently?
With real money?
How much experience do you have in the markets?
Tell us what your experience is so we can begin to understand you sight into the markets.
I've personally been in this forum, sharing with and helping traders for almost 4 years.
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