Why do people use Volume, Range and Tic charts?

[Don Bright]

1. 9:30-10:00 NYSE. Trade the opening only orders on NYSE.

2. 10-11AM Trade post-open based on peer/sector moves with your "children" stock(s) only.

3. 11-2PM During the slower time of day you make markets (provide liquidity) for your children stocks....and you trade pairs based purely on pre-determined pricing levels of entry/exit.

4. 3:30 prepare for Imbalances. At 3:40 trade MOC's based on the first published imbalances for your children and your MOC list based, again, on predetermined numbers.

5. At 3:50, watch the imbalances either go away or reduce to determine your exit strategy (either by MOC order, or simply closing manually).

No reason to get caught up in "setups" and all of that, since most setups can be determined by the above time frames and some all-encompassing tape reading (PREM/DISC, pivots, NYOB, RS, etc.).

We find it better to trade the same stocks every day so that others come to "our poker game" vs. heading off to someone else's poker game based on some setup.

Basic trading day for most of our traders.

FWIW,

Don

 

[Charly]

Quote from ProfLogic:

It is equally important to know when NOT to trade or to stand side than it is to know WHEN to trade.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any hint how this could be done??

Thanks,
Charly

 

[ProfLogic]

Quote from Don Bright:

1. 9:30-10:00 NYSE. Trade the opening only orders on NYSE.

2. 10-11AM Trade post-open based on peer/sector moves with your "children" stock(s) only.

3. 11-2PM During the slower time of day you make markets (provide liquidity) for your children stocks....and you trade pairs based purely on pre-determined pricing levels of entry/exit.

4. 3:30 prepare for Imbalances. At 3:40 trade MOC's based on the first published imbalances for your children and your MOC list based, again, on predetermined numbers.

5. At 3:50, watch the imbalances either go away or reduce to determine your exit strategy (either by MOC order, or simply closing manually).

No reason to get caught up in "setups" and all of that, since most setups can be determined by the above time frames and some all-encompassing tape reading (PREM/DISC, pivots, NYOB, RS, etc.).

We find it better to trade the same stocks every day so that others come to "our poker game" vs. heading off to someone else's poker game based on some setup.

Basic trading day for most of our traders.

FWIW,

Don

Mr. Bright, I appreciate your insight but we are talking about two different sides of the same coin. There is no doubt relevance to your "time" tables based on how you watch the markets but we do not look at the markets the same way. You look at "the markets" based on time and what effects them technically and fundamentally. I'm a chartist and look solely at specific charts OF THOSE markets and could care less the time of day to find the ultra-conservative trading opportunities. I do sprinkle in a small amount of fundamental data but just enough to add fuel to the already confirmed direction of price. As I stated earlier, cvb Charts are a natural filter to calm the noise of the markets because they eliminate the relevance of time.

Time skews minute or time based charts because it creates variables out of the bars or candles. Anytime you try to base a decision on anything that is a variable the outcome will always be subjective and discretionary and will never be consistent. Your reference to "poker" is spot on when you interact in a time based trading environment because you are guessing or making inconsistent calculated stabs in the dark as to price direction.

Eliminate the variable aspect of your trading environment and you will eliminate the bulk of what causes your discretionary decision making.

 

[ProfLogic]

Quote from Charly:

Quote from ProfLogic:

It is equally important to know when NOT to trade or to stand side than it is to know WHEN to trade.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any hint how this could be done??

Thanks,
Charly

Charly,

The way I do it is to break a chart into 2 sections. As I stated in the posts above the bottom is used for objectively defining Trend which gives me the "Overall Strength & Direction of a Chart". I say "a chart" and not a market because we trade based on charts not markets. Trends ONLY exist on charts. Markets move up & down but charts trend and consolidate. Once we are able to define the Trend of a particular chart we can then start the evaluation process to determine the trades of that particular chart based on the trend of that chart.

This is where the top portion of the chart comes in. The labels that the computer generates on the price portion of the chart shows us the strongest oscillations inside of the specific trend of that chart. These oscillations or decision points give us either the perfect opportunity to trade based on the direction of the Overall Strength & Direction of that Chart or the perfect opportunity to see that a given oscillation is contrary to that strength and direction and gives us the comfort of standing aside from taking a trade based on that particular oscillation.

Every oscillation is a decision point . . . either decide to trade conservatively or stand aside. Each chart offers many many conservative trading opportunities when viewing the markets based on price/volume and not time. Once you can confirm this for yourself you simply learn to be patient and wait for the conservative oscillations to manifest themselves creating trading opportunities.

I know this sounds really easy but it isn't. If one has spent years playing the statistics or math game trying to master the markets, this is an almost impossible task to accomplish. Those individuals just can't seem to wrap themselves around a concept where they can consistently pull profits out of these environments on a daily basis. To them what I lay out is ridiculous. This is why I tell everyone that they MUST verify what I show them on their own. The only way they will believe it.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from ProfLogic:

Mr. Bright, I appreciate your insight but we are talking about two different sides of the same coin. There is no doubt relevance to your "time" tables based on how you watch the markets but we do not look at the markets the same way. You look at "the markets" based on time and what effects them technically and fundamentally. I'm a chartist and look solely at specific charts OF THOSE markets and could care less the time of day to find the ultra-conservative trading opportunities. I do sprinkle in a small amount of fundamental data but just enough to add fuel to the already confirmed direction of price. As I stated earlier, cvb Charts are a natural filter to calm the noise of the markets because they eliminate the relevance of time.

Time skews minute or time based charts because it creates variables out of the bars or candles. Anytime you try to base a decision on anything that is a variable the outcome will always be subjective and discretionary and will never be consistent. Your reference to "poker" is spot on when you interact in a time based trading environment because you are guessing or making inconsistent calculated stabs in the dark as to price direction.

Eliminate the variable aspect of your trading environment and you will eliminate the bulk of what causes your discretionary decision making.

unfortunately, one cannot remove time from a chart of this nature. marked or not, time is an inherent feature of bar charts. time is a constant, number of tics is a variable----plogic is confused here. let's take an example of a 100 tic bar chart--- it takes 100 tics to create one bar-- with me so far??----these 100 tics take a variable amount of time to develop depending on market activity which is normally tied to time of day. hypothetical say it takes all day for a 100 tic bar to form--- then what?? just break this example across smaller and smaller time frames and you will start to see the absurdity of plogic claims. having bars built on a variable across time makes no sense. just because one doesn't recognize time does not and can not remove it from the equation. all he is doing is appearing to replace a constant--time-- with a variable-- tic count--- and tells you its the opposite. how can tic count be a constant and time not be a constant when it takes varying times to build a tic count bar, and constant time to build a time bar?? THINK!

this material sounds good, until its is scrutinized ,then it falls apart.


surf

 

[Bearbelly]

After a great deal of experimentation with all the different types of charts I feel that it does not make any difference what kind you use as long as you stick to one type and learn the nuances of it. I think the Professors volume charts are an excellent way to approach the market but not the only one.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from Bearbelly:

After a great deal of experimentation with all the different types of charts I feel that it does not make any difference what kind you use as long as you stick to one type and learn the nuances of it. I think the Professors volume charts are an excellent way to approach the market but not the only one.

in other words it's not the tool, it's how you use it??

i agree

makes sense to me.


surf

 

[ProfLogic]

Quote from marketsurfer:

unfortunately, one cannot remove time from a chart of this nature. marked or not, time is an inherent feature of bar charts. time is a constant, number of tics is a variable----plogic is confused here. let's take an example of a 100 tic bar chart--- it takes 100 tics to create one bar-- with me so far??----these 100 tics take a variable amount of time to develop depending on market activity which is normally tied to time of day. hypothetical say it takes all day for a 100 tic bar to form--- then what?? just break this example across smaller and smaller time frames and you will start to see the absurdity of plogic claims. having bars built on a variable across time makes no sense. just because one doesn't recognize time does not and can not remove it from the equation. all he is doing is appearing to replace a constant--time-- with a variable-- tic count--- and tells you its the opposite. how can tic count be a constant and time not be a constant when it takes varying times to build a tic count bar, and constant time to build a time bar?? THINK!

this material sounds good, until its is scrutinized ,then it falls apart.


surf

You really need to read what you have written . . . say a few hundred times for it maybe to sink in.

Ticks aren't constant.

Ticks are a variable.

Ticks are variables because there are a varying number of contracts or shares that make up a tick. A tick could be one contract traded or 500 contracts traded. A tick could be one share traded or 5000 shares traded.

A CVB (Constant Volume Bar) chart is made up of a PERFECTLY CONSISTENT number of contracts or shares traded per bar. The only variable on THESE charts are the TIME is takes to create each bar. Hence the variable nature of time based charts. You said it yourself, "these 100 tics take a variable amount of time to develop depending on market activity which is normally tied to time of day". Tick charts like time based charts are variable in nature.

Time is a constant. I agree. Sixty seconds to every minute, sixty minutes to every hour, 24 hours to every day & 365 days per year. The variable aspect comes into play when one asks, "How many shares or contracts are traded in any given market per minute, hour, day, week, month or year"? The answer will always be, "it varies". Every minute a varying number of contracts or shares are traded.

Between 3:00 am and 3:15 am EST (15 exact minutes) will trade a different number of contracts or shares total than 9:45 am and 10:00 am (15 exact minutes) almost every single day. There in is the variable aspect of time based charts.

The material is accurate and has been scrutinized by scholars with more credibility than either of us. What they have done that you will never do is apply it, test it and validate it or debunk it on your own.

Saying it isn't so doesn't negate it, just like me saying it works doesn't makes it valid. We will always agree to disagree.

 

[ProfLogic]

Quote from Bearbelly:

I think the Professors volume charts are an excellent way to approach the market but not the only one.

I agree.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from ProfLogic:



The material is accurate and has been scrutinized by scholars with more credibility than either of us. What they have done that you will never do is apply it, test it and validate it or debunk it on your own.

Saying it isn't so doesn't negate it, just like me saying it works doesn't makes it valid. We will always agree to disagree.

fair enough.

best,

surf