Why do people use Volume, Range and Tic charts?

Anekdoten · Jul 15, 2007

Charly,

A one minute bar can sometimes become a massive vertical line with a huge range. Without reading the tape it's hard to determine where the real interest to sell or buy is. By using "fast" tick/share charts you break down the bar into smaller fragments allowing you to microanalyze the movement instead of taking it for granted.

marketsurfer · Jul 15, 2007

Quote from Maverick1:

Hi Surf,

I have no interest in getting in the debate between you and the other guy, but I just thought that your comment above re the objectivity of a method begs the question: Can trading on an 'informational edge' be qualified as objective? (as in your NFI trade)

hey maverick---

my answer is it depends on the quality of the information and its historic accuracy. yes, i believe it can be objective.

surf

marketsurfer · Jul 15, 2007

Quote from ProfLogic:

Look, you do what you do, I do what I do. Let's agree to disgree.

At some point you want to honestly and personally review what I do, have at it. You are welcome to. Until then, the unfounded comments are not welcome.

question for you, professor. why is the "number" of trades in a chart bar, any different than "time" in a chart bar?

it seems to me that "time" based bars are actually more consistent since you are not dealing with variables of frequency over time within the bar--..

a simple example--5 minutes makes one five minute bar, 20 trades makes one bar. those 20 trades could take 1 minute or 1 hour to complete--- this number of trades in a bar, seems to me to be the ultimate in illogic and chaotic environment-- although couched in mystery.

thanks, surf

Bearbelly · Jul 15, 2007

The market has room for everyone and just about every approach. I like Prof Logics approach to analyse the longer term trends and the pertubations thereof but for intraday trading time is an important factor for me. How fast is price change taking place? I guess volume bars will tell you this by the speed they are progressing but if you are not watching every minute the time bars are easier to assess in retrospect. jmho.

marketsurfer · Jul 15, 2007

Quote from Bearbelly:

The market has room for everyone and just about every approach. I like Prof Logics approach to analyse the longer term trends and the pertubations thereof but for intraday trading time is an important factor for me. How fast is price change taking place? I guess volume bars will tell you this by the speed they are progressing but if you are not watching every minute the time bars are easier to assess in retrospect. jmho.

i agree bear. your post makes sense--- however, im still not grasping the logic of what proflogic says other than in the marketing aspect.

surf

ProfLogic · Jul 15, 2007

Quote from marketsurfer:

question for you, professor. why is the "number" of trades in a chart bar, any different than "time" in a chart bar?

it seems to me that "time" based bars are actually more consistent since you are not dealing with variables of frequency over time within the bar--..

a simple example--5 minutes makes one five minute bar, 20 trades makes one bar. those 20 trades could take 1 minute or 1 hour to complete--- this number of trades in a bar, seems to me to be the ultimate in illogic and chaotic environment-- although couched in mystery.

thanks, surf

On second thought, don't ever sign up for my class at the college. You would never live past the first day and I would get pinched for frustrated homicide.

I will go slow . . .

There is no mystery except to you. I have many many traders that have contacted me to tell me that the Constant Volume Bars that I have detailed in this forum have made their trading so much clearer. None of them have I ever met!

Trades per bar is not the goal . . . the goal is contracts or shares per bar and building the bar so there is a consistent number per bar. The goal is to have exact accuracy when it comes to VOLUME PER BAR. The goal is eliminating ALL variables per price bar. Your Minute bars are the worse because "Volume per Minute" is as erratic as a 3 year old on double chocolate.

For each Minute Bar or 5 Minute bar or whatever Minute bar that is created for each and every market that is traded . . . there is a varying number of contracts or shares traded for each bar. No two bars trade the same because time is a variable to the markets.

EXAMPLE: In the middle of our night the 5 minute bars for the YM are very short, usually, because there isn't much trading going on (LACK OF VOLUME). Right after a relative news report a 5 minute bar might be 40 points in length (EXAGGERATED VOLUME). Because of this NOISE minute charts are worthless as far as reading price/volume accuracy.

The concept of accuracy, preciseness and building a non-variable environment is illogical and chaotic to you for obvious reasons. First, you don't understand logic. Any programmer will tell you that stable programming can not be created where you are writing based on variables. The end result will vary and logically that is not good. Whatever you program needs and "IF this, then this" simple formula. THERE ARE NO VARIABLES IN LOGICAL SOLUTIONS, PERIOD! Second, your usually snide remark regarding "Marketing" is as good a tell as any poker player needs to see that your mind is as open as a Venus flytrap at lunch.

Take the time you say you spend hobnobbing with the social pros and spend on doing something for your trading skills.

marketsurfer · Jul 15, 2007

funny, professor. actually, if the offer is still open, and you are in the area, i'll attend your class with respect.

however, empirically what you are saying doesn't make sense.
sorry.

if it did, you could easily program it, which i dont think you have--- if you have or even that it can be, im open to watch it in action, in real time--- then comment objectively. what do you say??

surf

ps. perhaps we should go on the road together---like g gordon liddy debates timothy leary--- the mind of the state v. state of mind.

the professor v marketsurfer--- the final countdown.....haha

marketsurfer · Jul 15, 2007

ProfLogic · Jul 15, 2007

Quote from marketsurfer:

funny, professor. actually, if the offer is still open, and you are in the area, i'll attend your class with respect.

however, empirically what you are saying doesn't make sense.
sorry.

if it did, you could easily program it, which i dont think you have--- if you have or even that it can be, im open to watch it in action, in real time--- then comment objectively. what do you say??

surf

I doubt whether any visit I will make to the PA or NY area will be for teaching. Those are two areas a save for fishing. Salmon and bass are the target of choice.

Not making sense from an empirical standpoint is understandable as well. YOU have not personally experimented with this idea nor have firsthand or even secondhand information regarding it.

I do not have a problem with you attending a class but I must lay the ground rules upfront. I allow ample time for questions from all students and we trade live as well so you will have the opportunity to see everything. If you disrupt the class in any way shape or form I will have you removed from campus permanently and before you can blink twice. As all students taking the class you will have the opportunity to "see for yourself" what I teach but in your case what you will not walk away with is the ability to share the information with your social elitists. This information is for you alone. If you can agree, you are welcome.

In regards to the programming, it doesn't matter what you believe because it is irrelevant.

marketsurfer · Jul 15, 2007

as i said, i'll attend respectfully and quietly.

still want to see this "system" programed, not sure why you are avoiding that situation, other than the obvious.

by the way. i'll outfish you also anyday. next time your on the susquehanna, give me a call----you might learn something. then you are welcome to visit the surf shack in bryn mawr and show me/us your system.

surf

ps. by the way, there's some excellent smallmouth fishing nearby!