Why do people use Volume, Range and Tic charts?

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Quote from dandxg:

Prof Logic,

Thank you for a very enlightening thread! I have enjoyed it so much I re-read the entire thread now twice. A couple of questions if I could ask to clarify things.

At the beginnig of the thread you suggested to a ET member that they could use 81 and 729, 9 squared, for intraday ES scalping. And then you mention 81 and 729 for intraday ES trading. Later you mentioned you like consistently use 7 squared, which is what your excel spreadsheet used for both the ES and ER2. Do you ever go back and forth between 9 squared and 7 or do you just stick with 7 for these above mentioned markets?

In constructing you areas of support and resistance you mention to use the sequential and look for extreme oscillation. So if I am a day trader in both ES and ER I could find my prime support on the 16807 v chart for both ES and ER and look for entries off of off the 2401v chart using s/r line derived from the 16807 chart. Additionally I could also look for other potential counter trend trades to higher chart (16807 in this case ) in between? Or do I need to go to a higher volume chart to find these extreme oscillations such as the 117649 v chart for both markets? Please forgive my lack of quote citations I am not sure that that I could reference so many of your posts in mine. Thank you very much PL. :)

Dan
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In the beginning I was just offering suggestions to use. I personally use 7 squared and do not vary from that.

You only need to use a combination of two charts at a time. Any more than than and you will hurt & confuse yourself.

I use:

Trend/Trading

2401/343 - ES & NQ Intraday
16807/2401 - ES & NQ Swing
117649/16807 - ES & NQ Position
823543/117649 - ES & NQ Long Term

343/49 - YM or ER Intraday
2401/343 - YM or ER Swing
16807/2401 - YM or ER Position
117649/16807 - YM or ER Long Term
823543/117649 - YM or ER Really Long Term
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

In the beginning I was just offering suggestions to use. I personally use 7 squared and do not vary from that.

You only need to use a combination of two charts at a time. Any more than than and you will hurt & confuse yourself.

I use:

Trend/Trading

2401/343 - ES & NQ Intraday
16807/2401 - ES & NQ Swing
117649/16807 - ES & NQ Position
823543/117649 - ES & NQ Long Term

343/49 - YM or ER Intraday
2401/343 - YM or ER Swing
16807/2401 - YM or ER Position
117649/16807 - YM or ER Long Term
823543/117649 - YM or ER Really Long Term
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Prof Logic,

Thank you for clarifying. Then it that case how many days back would you go to find your extreme oscilation for for PR/PS? Would that be 90 days, since that's what your data provides. Then once that it broken up or down you are creating new PR/PS. Am I getting it?:) Thanks again. :)

Dan
 
Quote from dandxg:

Prof Logic,

Thank you for clarifying. Then it that case how many days back would you go to find your extreme oscilation for for PR/PS? Would that be 90 days, since that's what your data provides. Then once that it broken up or down you are creating new PR/PS. Am I getting it?:) Thanks again. :)

Dan
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You're getting it. PERFECT! My data goes back for a few years now. The farther the data progresses the clearer the overall effect of price becomes.
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

You're getting it. PERFECT! My data goes back for a few years now. The farther the data progresses the clearer the overall effect of price becomes.
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Thanks much PL. Now I just need to sit here and study to see what combo what works best for me. :)
 
Quote from dandxg:

Thanks much PL. Now I just need to sit here and study to see what combo what works best for me. :)
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Now comes the patience. Good luck & Great trading!!!
 
Pro Logic........if I could bother you with a couple of more questions? What do you have for prime resistance for ER2. I am looking at 16807 v chart? I can only go back 45 days for now, until Monday when I can access to more data. I would show it as 780 going back to 10/17/06 and support being 760, those being the highest high and the lowest low for that time period. I am rounding down to 780 for the recent high as I believe market psychology likes round #'s.

If my thinking would be correct please confirm. I would take the high and low from this time period, however far I can go back, and this would be prime support. These would be my strongest S/R line to trade off with an entry off of the 2401 chart? Am I following so far? Then I could create minor S/R line off of every swing hi/lo on the 16807 v chart and trade off of those as well on the 2401v chart? These would not be as strong since they are no prime S/R right, especially if they are counter trend to the overall trend on the 16807 chart? How my thought process so far? On track? Thank you very much for taking time to help me out.

Best Regards,

Dan
 
Boy dandxg sure does ask a lot of questions!

... and in the process is educating the whole ET community.

I've got a funny feeling that even if Prof doesn't reply to his questions, he's pretty much going to be able to figure it out for himself. :D

JJ

edit: Man, now I have to archieve the thread again! :( :) :D
 
Thanks to everyone, specially to ProfLogic for this great thread.

I thought I'll share some of my observations because I recently started using sized tick charts in my trading again and it's been making a difference.

I have been trading off and on since the late sixties. My first experience with tick charts was on Quotrons in the early or mid seventies but they were showing every tick. Traded ag futures then and the tick charts would have usefulness only when the market was wild. Because frequency of ticks went off and on like a light bulb I did not think of it as a better source then the time charts. Frankly I would gravitate to markets where the action unfolded normally on my 60 min or daily charts. The mention of ticks would mean intensity which I would rather avoid.
Also the range and commission structure would not be always conducive for making vs trades and at that time I did not think of using tick for building charts of larger scales.
In addition I found myself losing perspective going into such detail and kept going back to ID time bar charts.

I traded on one of the floors in NY for a few years and I did not find the answer to the off and on intensity and found support and resistance levels, pivots and reading other trader's faces and pit noise more useful then processing ticks in my head.

Fast forward 20yrs to a few months ago, I have been gravitating to the ER2 because it is a great $ mover but it also bounces around a lot which fits my style of off floor market making, scaling up and down.

I started pulling up tick charts in my new TS platform(IB, where I have traded for years does not offer tick charts)and to my surprise, because the ER2 is so active, everything that I have learned and developed and used on time charts seems to be applicable to the scaled tick charts.

I use a 34 tick chart for the ER2 and a 1 minute and a 5 minute. Basically the 1 min and 5 min are for perspective. I also look at the 60 min and daily after the session and log onto another board for trader sentiment after the session.
So basically I have my bearings - and sometimes bias - but I use the tick chart for deciding what to do and when. I have found that higher frame tick charts may end up looking close to some 1,2,3,5,10,30 etc min charts so the time charts are ok for me to get perspective. I also find that watching the other eminis is distracting.
I have been doing well to begin with but reading potential id turns on the 34 tick with one constant price band and one canned oscillator study I get a good sense when not to go against the market. This has raised my comfort level quite a bit and I can quit earlier in the day.

So, to answer the question of a poster
early on the thread, the markets have evolved to a point where the liquidity, price delivery, order entry and commission structures make it practical to use tick charts to read market action.

This thread contains so many worthwhile ideas to check into and great illumination but for now I'll just stick to what works for me.

I am not a native english speaker, now I have to look up ergodonic. :)
 
Quote from gurucandidate:

I also find that watching the other eminis is distracting.

This has raised my comfort level quite a bit and I can quit earlier in the day.
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Hola gc.

I agree that watching other eminis is distracting even when it seems like a good idea.

Also, I like to quit early in the day as well.
As I think that I mentioned earlier in this thread, size does count in this game and so one needs to be very very careful as to how long one dithers in the market.

All I want is my net points target per lot each day and the sooner it comes up the better.

My variables therefore are:
1 ... average trade size
2 ... accordingly my brokerage.
If I caught larger swings my trade size would increase and obviously my comms would decrease, but a healthy increase in lots traded reduces the comms in any case. and I am after all chasing a net target.

Standing back two paces and looking at my book over several sessions it is easy to see that it is variable in the sense of points taken and any good trader worth their salt would quickly point out that my entries are very very good but my exits do not allow for wiggle room.

Since I have changed from tic charts to volume based charts nothing much has happened to be quite frank. But I do find that my trading is less stressful and for that I am grateful.

Granted, I could make changes to my trading philosophy that would change the way that I trade but that is simply not going to happen in my current state of mind.

The ES is a dangerous little bugger at the best of times, particularly when it is flooded with volume on both sides.
Multiple this by account volume and my senses are on full alert during my morning trading session and it is only discipline that holds me together.

When I read of other traders who watch multiple charts etc, I can only marvel and wonder.
 
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