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Why Do People Trade when the Failure Rate is So High?
- Thread starter stockgirl
- Start date
Quote from stockgirl:
Ok then Don, should the general public be allowed to trade without training or certification?
Hmmm? "Allowed" yes, because this is still America. Should they, I don't think so...and we have lobbied hard to make the distinction that "trading should be left to professionals".
Don
I agree that training is essential to trading success... but first, how does one define "proper training"? For that matter, how does one define "professional" as a graduate degree?
Most of the successful traders I know are self-taught, i.e. no prop shops or floor mentors, etc. Likewise I've worked with many prop shop trained and former floor traders who then tried to export their former tactics to trading at home, and failed miserably. The advantages of prop shops and pit floors where an edge was found completely disappears when said "professional" trader works from home.
Then what? They relearn = adjust to a new reality, which often is very different from their earlier "schooling".
**
I am eternally grateful for a high-pay profession that only took time, modest capital and sweat equity to learn. It may be nice if a structured program existed to train traders in ALL aspects of trading, i.e. futures, commodities, FX via intraday tactics, swing tactics, trend trade tactics, etc.
Meanwhile, this is a self-taught profession where way more than enough knowledge & experience is available to those who seek.
Success in trading is highly possible, in pure entreprenuerial fashion. Do we really wish to mess with that?
Best Trading Wishes
Austin P
Most of the successful traders I know are self-taught, i.e. no prop shops or floor mentors, etc. Likewise I've worked with many prop shop trained and former floor traders who then tried to export their former tactics to trading at home, and failed miserably. The advantages of prop shops and pit floors where an edge was found completely disappears when said "professional" trader works from home.
Then what? They relearn = adjust to a new reality, which often is very different from their earlier "schooling".
**
I am eternally grateful for a high-pay profession that only took time, modest capital and sweat equity to learn. It may be nice if a structured program existed to train traders in ALL aspects of trading, i.e. futures, commodities, FX via intraday tactics, swing tactics, trend trade tactics, etc.
Meanwhile, this is a self-taught profession where way more than enough knowledge & experience is available to those who seek.
Success in trading is highly possible, in pure entreprenuerial fashion. Do we really wish to mess with that?
Best Trading Wishes
Austin P
Holy Moly...
Quote from mschey:
The notion of more regulation is complete crap. I believe that government needs to get out of our lives and let us live.
The FED....get rid of them. Who are they to determine that too much growth is bad! We end up paying a hell of a price to have "moderate" growth.
SEC....they take down a few small fish, but never really go after the big time illegal shit that happens. How about the firms that let hedge funds fleece their small investors by allowing fund timing.
Sarbanes Oxley --- another nightmare...keeps the accountants and lawyers rich.
Lawyers...shoot them all. They didn't need attorney's in the wild west, because if you screwed someone over you'd end up dead. That's one hell of a deterent. Back then your word was your bond, and that's all that was needed.
Judges....make decisions about right and wrong....not your job to make new law.
Taxes -- How about taxing buffet, gates and those other rich bastards. The middle class pay all the taxes, and do all the work. We are indentured servants..if you think not...try not paying taxes! How about that Theresa Heinz Kerry....made 10 million and paid 1 million in taxes. You have got to be kidding me... someone who makes 200k pays in damn near 100k in taxes. COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
The welfare state....nothing worse then a few lazy bastards spending their time drinking and reproducing more lazy bastards that live off the hard work of the middle class.
I could go on...but I'll leave it at that. I've got to work out, just writing this paragraph has got my blood boiling.
Quote from stockgirl:
Ok then Don, should the general public be allowed to trade without training or certification?
(this was asked to Don, but I'll answer)
who would decide what is to be trained?
how can we be sure there'd be no conflict of interest? You dont think wall street would send lobbyists to K street to be sure people are taught things that hurt them?
neophyte321
Guest
.
SIMPLE: HINDSIGHT
Give a stock chart to any Tom-Dick-or-Harry off the street and ask them when they would have bought and when they would have sold.
It appears soooooooooo deceptively easy.
SIMPLE: HINDSIGHT
Give a stock chart to any Tom-Dick-or-Harry off the street and ask them when they would have bought and when they would have sold.
It appears soooooooooo deceptively easy.
To MSchey....man, some opinions..."..end up dead"...geez, remember, we live in Vegas, LOL.
Another point of view is to work "within" the regulations in order to keep the ability to function at a level to make $$...and, you probably pay your taxes, and have a driver license, and even pay for insurance....and pay your bills on time. I know we all like to think of ourselves as "renegades" - but I have to admit that we (Bob and I), are more "work within the system renegades".
And...if you don't like taxes, how can you live in Calif? What is that now, about 11% to Arnold...that could be from $5K-$10K per month, right? (just guessing of course).
Anarchists Unite, LOL
(not that I don't agree with a lot of what you said).
To: swtrader...
I say that learning from people who are actually successful participants (yes, I am a bit bias)...and I just spent time with the CEO of my exchange, and the head regulator from the CBOe, and we are hoping to develop a true "trader's test" for members. In my opinion, it's a lot more important to understand the risk of selling straddles (just an example, of course) than to learn how to "cold call" customers without violating their risk parameters, leaning how to layer debentures, and all the other Series 7 stuff.
IMO,
Don
Another point of view is to work "within" the regulations in order to keep the ability to function at a level to make $$...and, you probably pay your taxes, and have a driver license, and even pay for insurance....and pay your bills on time. I know we all like to think of ourselves as "renegades" - but I have to admit that we (Bob and I), are more "work within the system renegades".
And...if you don't like taxes, how can you live in Calif? What is that now, about 11% to Arnold...that could be from $5K-$10K per month, right? (just guessing of course).
Anarchists Unite, LOL
(not that I don't agree with a lot of what you said).
To: swtrader...
I say that learning from people who are actually successful participants (yes, I am a bit bias)...and I just spent time with the CEO of my exchange, and the head regulator from the CBOe, and we are hoping to develop a true "trader's test" for members. In my opinion, it's a lot more important to understand the risk of selling straddles (just an example, of course) than to learn how to "cold call" customers without violating their risk parameters, leaning how to layer debentures, and all the other Series 7 stuff.
IMO,
Don
Quote from Hydroblunt:
That's because you can't hide your money like they can and the tax law is modified by the very rich to favor them, not you. Estate tax anyone, lol?
Either way, the very rich still pay more than middle class. They just have that much money piled on top of old money. If half the loopholes were closed, US government could probably run a serious yearly surplus (excluding the war)
The rich have to throw the poor just enough to keep them from uprising but not enough to make any real advancement. It's been like this for centuries and whenever the balance is altered, there was a revolution.
Your ideal "free market" "laissez faire" capitalism is a daydream. Screw the theory, in real life raw capitalism creates revolutions & uprisings because it's nothing more than serfdom.
To loop it back to the mysterious stockgirl (who I suspect is male). Financial markets like equities are used as a form of wealth transfer. So whatever the reason is, it don't matter, the math behind it says that most have to lose.
And like I said, it's the same or prob worse with actors in USA. But what drives them is more passion than greed. Trading is a bit similiar, most of the losers are addicted to it, addicted to the adrenaline rush and addicted to the dream of riches. Kinda like the addiction to the "American Dream" which moves 90% of the masses into a perpetual rat race.
agreed. throw in the concept of fiat currency and you are 90% of the way to understanding how america's socioeconomics works.
You Kill or you get killed.
That simple. Now ask yourself do you have what it takes to make it in this business. Secondly ask yourself do you know what it takes to make it in this business. This question will take some time to answer.
This is a very very serious occupation. If you don't do it properly it can damage you both financially, physically and mentally.
All I can say is be carefull and tread lightly.
Good Luck to everyone.
P.S once you know what your doing rip their fucking throats out and make a few million.
That simple. Now ask yourself do you have what it takes to make it in this business. Secondly ask yourself do you know what it takes to make it in this business. This question will take some time to answer.
This is a very very serious occupation. If you don't do it properly it can damage you both financially, physically and mentally.
All I can say is be carefull and tread lightly.
Good Luck to everyone.
P.S once you know what your doing rip their fucking throats out and make a few million.