Why do people pay for trading courses/training?

[Handle123]

Quote from PropTraderMTL:

Having never taken a paid trading course and only undergone minimum training (free) I want to ask the question of WHY people pay and has it worked for you? Also for those experienced profitable traders... have you ever taken a course thats improved your trading?

When I was a novice long ago, the paid courses were generally frauds in some ways, either taught by losing traders or courses taught by folks who never even traded.

As the years have passed and I have become very experienced, I have continued taking courses providing they send some type of proof they trade. Heck, it is tax deductable and get to go somewhere for a mini vacation. Most of the time I will learn at least one thing I can add to what I do or gives me many ideas to go home and test.

Those who do know how to trade and are vendors are happy to give monthly brokerage statements to those who inquire, but 99% won't. And often times will verbally attack those who are interested, stay away from those guys.

The trouble for newbies taking courses is lack of experience to know when they must alter the method in some way. Most believe they are learning something that never has to be changed, but that is the how trading is. When volatility expands, small stops get clubbered. Trading isn't about numbers to me, it is about emotions, yeah sure I backtest numbers, but they represent certain emotions. A day session barchart represents a story of what happened cause of emotions, and this is very difficult to teach.

 

[xkr1962]

Quote from xkr1962:

I can trade all the other methods I mentioned except fundis, that bollingers, channels, fibs, ma crossovers etc, I prefer my method because it is far more prcise. I am confident that 5 years fulltime study and three years live trading priceaction has equipped me with enough of a clue to adapt to changing markets, however the method I have devised has been proved to work (by myself) on 20 years of data across all currency pairs, that is enough for me.

I like to use the phrase, "trade like a machine", I do not need to worry about news or fundis at all. Events like the recent Japanese earthquake just meant I avoided jpy trades until the dust settled.

I get up 5am ish gmt look for valid m5 m15 setups place the trade and go back to bed, 5 days a week, it works for me and limits screentime to an hour or so a day.

Sorry for the long answer but you did ask.

Keep it simple

My apolgies for the spelling and grammar in my last post, not my strongpoint especially when half asleep.

I would also like to add that I studied orderflow, market profile, VSA and auction theory. All but the VSA stuff really did help my trading, it made real sense of what the naked candlestick charts were telling me, now all I need is candlesticks on every timeframe to make my decisions.

I actually don't care what really makes price move, I have worked out my own set of rules based on a very unusual view of the markets, if people are open minded enough to take them on board I know it can help them trade profitably. Belief in how I understand the markets gives me the confidence to take and hold trades througout the nasty games the biggest money plays.

Regarding showing trading history to prove ability that's for people who cannot read between the lines to work out who are the real deal, ever heard the expression do as I say NOT as I do, I have learned some brilliant stuff from people that don't follow their own rules. If you cannot work out worthless from worthwhile why would anyone waste any time trying to teach you.

I teach, but I choose who I want to teach not the other way around. I have found the people who get what I do quickest are the guys with real life business experience from the school of hard knocks, so called educated people are usually the hardest to teach.

p.s. I am not a scalper I trade gaps between support and resistance levels.

 

[wrbtrader]

Quote from xkr1962:

...I like to use the phrase, "trade like a machine", I do not need to worry about news or fundis at all. Events like the recent Japanese earthquake just meant I avoided jpy trades until the dust settled...

If you don't need to worry about news events...why would the Japanese earthquake cause you to avoid JPY trades.

Simply, if news events have no impact on your trade decisions...you would have NOT avoided JPY trades. I'm questioning this because I see a lot of statements like this by traders that say "news events" have no impact on their trade decisions, they don't concern themselves with news events, they don't worry about news, news is already priced into the price action and so on. Yet, when I read between the lines, when they explain a particular "action" (trade or no trade) they've taken due to a news event...

In reality the news event did have some sort of impact in their thinking process that caused them to react as in take a trade or avoid the trade.

Mark

 

[austinp]

Next year I'm going to open a specialty burger = sandwich restaurant operation. It's been a lifelong goal that's finally coming to fruition.

Years of study and research suggest it may take two years before we reach breakeven and net-profitable status. The inevitable learning curve for all aspects of operation and seasonal cycles cannot be avoided. It can be lessened by hiring experienced management, but a natural learning curve stills exists.

Why then do most restaurants fail and close within six month's of their opening for business? How does one fail inside six months' of a two-year business plan?

Because they foolishly thought they could "earn while they learn" and cashflow off the fledgling business right away. Hence the massive failure rate of new restaurant operations.

**

Most aspiring traders, the vast majority have no interest or intentions of making this a serious business profession. The vast majority need an income source right away, so they put their own blinders on and seek out trade-call advisory services with track records and free trial periods.

Inwardly, deep down they know it's not realistic to believe they can follow someone else' trade calls verbatim... but they NEED that to be real so therefore they lie to themselves and believe it so.

All those trade-along room services pander to the natural human desire of "make money easy" that the masses of lazy, short-cut opportunity seekers emotionally desire. A perpetual churn process with equal blame on both sides.

I shake my head and cringe every time I see "advice" where aspiring traders can read a book, glean bits of knowledge from the web off some message board and be well armed to compete with experienced, battle-tested veterans of this game.

That type of advice is just as false and dangerous to newbies as the idea that subscribing to some trade-along service will let them earn while they learn.

Everything needed to know does not exist in books or blogs or message boards out there in public. Not even close. Only the dreamers and those who need to believe they are not missing out on their missing link to success cling to those ideas.

There are definite, iron-clad reasons why most aspiring traders fail. That process will never change, because it is deeply rooted upon basic human nature.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from Maverick74:

Somebody is starting to feel a little better. Getting your second wind eh Donny boy? Good to see you stretch your sea legs. Welcome back. Now battle!

Thanks, Mav... no "battle" - at least not with me these days, LOL. But, am feeling "ok" - as long as I don't have to get out of the chair, LOL.


Don

 

[icarus618]

Quote from Don Bright:

* * *
I have a bird's eye view to virtually all types of traders and strategies.. and what I try to do is share current "stuff" * * *

Hi Don,

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post: personal responsibility. But I have to call you out on this one.

In 1999 when I was looking for an office to trade from, I was told on the phone by either you or your brother (probably your brother as he was on the verge of yelling) that I could only trade NYSE stocks because there was no "edge" trading NASDAQ stocks. I won't reveal how much I had made with tech stocks up to that point even while working full-time but it was very odd to hear that from a firm owner who supposedly knew the latest in the industry. Obviously, I went with a different firm.

Some years later, when I had moved on to index futures, I read on here that futures can't be traded because they lead stocks and nothing leads the futures. LOL... I think you even challenged anyone to prove you wrong with an invitation to demonstrate at your office.

If I'm not mistaken, you allow trading NASDAQ stocks now. Care to update your opinion on futures? Just wondering if your "bird's eye view" now is any better than it was in '99.

Best wishes for your improved health.

 

[Lojanica]

Disclaimer:

I did not read this whole thread but sampled a few comments.

My take. Trading courses are worth MORE than they cost. I make money in the markets now but anything that reduces the TUITION to learn is worth it. I only wished I had listened better......

Pay the money and take notes.

BTW I am not a schill and I do not teach.

 

[icarus618]

Quote from Lojanica:

Disclaimer:

I did not read this whole thread but sampled a few comments.

My take. Trading courses are worth MORE than they cost. I make money in the markets now but anything that reduces the TUITION to learn is worth it. I only wished I had listened better......

Pay the money and take notes.

BTW I am not a schill and I do not teach.

Haha! Thanks I needed that. Now I can log off and enjoy my Saturday.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from icarus618:

Hi Don,

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post: personal responsibility. But I have to call you out on this one.

In 1999 when I was looking for an office to trade from, I was told on the phone by either you or your brother (probably your brother as he was on the verge of yelling) that I could only trade NYSE stocks because there was no "edge" trading NASDAQ stocks. I won't reveal how much I had made with tech stocks up to that point even while working full-time but it was very odd to hear that from a firm owner who supposedly knew the latest in the industry. Obviously, I went with a different firm.

Some years later, when I had moved on to index futures, I read on here that futures can't be traded because they lead stocks and nothing leads the futures. LOL... I think you even challenged anyone to prove you wrong with an invitation to demonstrate at your office.

If I'm not mistaken, you allow trading NASDAQ stocks now. Care to update your opinion on futures? Just wondering if your "bird's eye view" now is any better than it was in '99.

Best wishes for your improved health.

I have long argued this point with my dear friend in Las Vegas. I think everyone just likes to talk their book. Everyone believes "their" way is the best.

I will note that to get many of the exchange benefits trading futures in a prop environment, you have to be a true prop firm, not a deposit prop firm.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from icarus618:

Hi Don,

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post: personal responsibility. But I have to call you out on this one.

In 1999 when I was looking for an office to trade from, I was told on the phone by either you or your brother (probably your brother as he was on the verge of yelling) that I could only trade NYSE stocks because there was no "edge" trading NASDAQ stocks. I won't reveal how much I had made with tech stocks up to that point even while working full-time but it was very odd to hear that from a firm owner who supposedly knew the latest in the industry. Obviously, I went with a different firm.

Some years later, when I had moved on to index futures, I read on here that futures can't be traded because they lead stocks and nothing leads the futures. LOL... I think you even challenged anyone to prove you wrong with an invitation to demonstrate at your office.

If I'm not mistaken, you allow trading NASDAQ stocks now. Care to update your opinion on futures? Just wondering if your "bird's eye view" now is any better than it was in '99.

Best wishes for your improved health.

Thanks for the good wishes, always appreciated!!

This decade (or more) long mis-conception has been explained a few times here... we have always traded nasdaq stocks, and even more so in our pairs trading. Waaay back in the 90's (and a few years forward), we simply advised traders of a few things... like No opening only orders on Nasdaq ( a big edge for so long), and the fact that MM's had 20 seconds to not honor their quotes... nothing more than that.... and we did feel that it was easier to read a single location quote system vs. the "foolish" level 2 (before I get grief on that, all I mean is that when level 2 became available to the public, it became pretty much worthless... many "pros" would simply place "bluff" orders, a few cents below the NBBO for a zillion shares to trigger buying activity, sell the stock, cancel that bid etc. - just to easy too manipulate)....

Many like using levered ETFs vs futures for other reasons.

Of course, a lot has changed in 12 years.... and we do our best to keep up with it. Like the poor options guys trying to keep up with HFT guys trading 3 ways (conversions, reverse conversions) in micro seconds without transparency. Heck, it took us a while to finally figure out how to use HFT to our advantage, directionally..LOL.

Anyway, everyone... just do your best to learn all the market mechanics you can, don't get blind sided...

All the best,

Don