Why do more than 90% of traders lose?

Redneck said:
All traders lose

The consistency successful ones..., lose more often..., while losing a considerably lessor amount per loss

RN
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I think the spirit of the thread is, at the end of the year, if they make it that long, do they have more money than they started with, or less. Including datafeeds, books, software fees, seminars, internet connection, computer expenses, commissions, etc.

And, is this enough to make a living on without external support. For the sake of argument, let's call a "living" >$25k after expenses.
 
nitro said:
I think the spirit of the thread is, at the end of the year, if they make it that long, do they have more money than they started with, or less. Including datafeeds, books, software fees, seminars, internet connection, computer expenses, commissions, etc.

And, is this enough to make a living on without external support. For the sake of argument, let's call a "living" >$25k after expenses.
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What if he makes 22,5K after expenses ?
Consistently ? Or 25K in average ?

Arbitrary value for useless variable is ... BS.

You can be a successful trader but not able to live from your art.
However if successful you are. One day will come when you'll be able to.
The only spreadsheet that matters is the P&L. Not the bills or whatever else.
 
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K-Pia said:
What if he makes 22,5K after expenses ?
Consistently ? Or 25K in average ?

Arbitrary value for useless variable is ... BS.

You can be a successful trader but not able to live from your art.
However if successful you are. One day will come when you'll be able to.
The only spreadsheet that matters is the P&L. Not the bills or whatever else.
More...
If you made it on average, it would not be a living since some months you won't be able to pay your bills, and by the definition I gave, he would need external support. And if he got not even that unlucky, he might not even make any money say the first three months and blow out because most retail traders are horribly undercapitilized.

The reason I said $25k after expenses is because it is a reasonable number that I have seen many many retail traders make in the past that had humble trading accounts of say $100k. At IB that gives you portfolio margin and you might be able to make chicken stew. And if you live frugal, you can support yourself just about anywhere in the world.

The point is not only are they not making anywhere near $25k a year, most of them go negative year after year after expenses. So $25k or $25,000,000 is a mute point.
 
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nitro said:
If you made it on average, it would not be a living since some months you won't be able to pay your bills, and by the definition I gave, he would need external support. And if he got not even that unlucky, he might not even make any money say the first three months and blow out.
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You're Right.
But I am in favor to drop your second condtition.
Because a successful trader isn't necessarily earning more than 25K.
Success in trading is sized by the growth of wealth over time.
If someone turns 100$ into 1000$ in a year, he's good.
Or Probably Good if not lucky. But earned < 25K.
 
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K-Pia said:
You're Right.
But I am in favor to drop your second condtition.
Because a successful trader isn't necessarily earning more than 25K.
Success in trading is sized by the growth of wealth over time.
If someone turns 100$ into 1000$ in a year, he's good.
Or Probably Good if not lucky. But earned < 25K.
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Turning $100 into $1000 is a tremendous result if done consistently.

Although, I would like to see (obviously):

  • The account size that it is done on (is it really $100?)
  • The MAE and MFE
  • How often does he blow out the $100, then subtract from future gains.
This person is a hobbyist anyway.
 
nitro said:
Turning $100 into $1000 is a tremendous result if done consistently.

Although, I would like to see (obviously):

  • The account size that it is done on (is it really $100?)
  • The MAE and MFE
  • How often does he blow out the $100, then subtract from future gains.
This person is a hobbyist anyway.
More...

MAE ? MFE ?
So no one will ever be able to fool you.
 
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