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Why did the US send so much work overseas?
- Thread starter noob_trad3r
- Start date
+1
Quote from Cache Landing:
Ask and you shall receive. Attached is a graph comparing GDP to Public Debt since 1969. Both have been adjusted to 2008 dollars.
I realize that I'm gonna catch a ton of flack for this graph, because there are so many out there who are claiming that the debt is simply exploding. I don't really care, I don't really have a position one way or the other. I just pulled the numbers and performed the inflation adjustments, then double checked the numbers to find any errors.
In summary, over the last 4 decades, there has been a pretty constant $4 Trillion gap between the public debt and GDP. At first glance one might think that this is not a problem as the debt doesn't seem to be overtaking the GDP. The problem becomes evident in the proportions.
IN 1969 the public debt was 36% of GDP. It has gradually grown to a size now of 70% of GDP. IOW, or ability to pay off the debt is dropping quickly. My interest is now drawn to the significance of the $4trillion number.
Good stuff, here's an easy math calculation I did.
In 1969 you had $6T of real GDP and $2T of real debt. By 2008 you had $14T of real GDP and $10T of real debt.
Both debt and GDP increased by $8T over the same period.
14-6 = 8
10-2 = 8
Considering up to that point the US Economy had $6T of real GDP and $2T of real debt, you might say that the debt used to growth GDP by $1 tripled. That's not good.
$2T to generate the first $6T.
Then $8T to generate the next $8T.
Quote from Renegen:
Good stuff, here's an easy math calculation I did.
In 1969 you had $6T of real GDP and $2T of real debt. By 2008 you had $14T of real GDP and $10T of real debt.
Both debt and GDP increased by $8T over the same period.
14-6 = 8
10-2 = 8
Considering up to that point the US Economy had $6T of real GDP and $2T of real debt, you might say that the debt used to growth GDP by $1 tripled. That's not good.
$2T to generate the first $6T.
Then $8T to generate the next $8T.
That is an interesting perspective. Law of diminishing returns I guess.
I'm still trying to figure out if there is something to this $4T number. Seems odd to me that for the previous 100 years, the debt and GDP seemed to have little correlation. If I go back 100 years, the picture gets a little more interesting. There is a period of very rapid debt increase as a portion of GDP. Then suddenly the Debt flat lines for something like 25-30 years. Then coincidentally, the year we drop the gold standard, debt starts to increase again, but this time it pretty much stays right in step with GDP growth. IT maintains that correlation for 30 years.
No way that is all coincidence. But I'm trying to figure out the significance of certain events to see if it will allow me to gain a different perspective on the future of our economy.
Quote from burritobob:
why not let John Stossel answer all the hard questions.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqtS3sFVy7s
This is a great video.
It captures, imo, how the liberal mind thinks. Honestly, I think many liberals want a better world for everyone, but simply rely too much on their emotions and not on facts, logic & reason.
These people want these jobs. Stay out of their business!
US big business loathes the working class american! Who is self assured, and has rights, plus a little lesser work ethics compared to the foreigner....the fuckers cannot stand it. Despite that many non-Indian programmers are better (more original, innovative and fast - they (big ass business) loves the ass kissing and head down attitude the Indians show)
That is the reason for the H1B's (despite the FACT that equal talent, albeit not so obedient and meek available domestically...
I have spent 20+ years in IT (IBM, Tibco, MSFT, Sybase, Cisco) so do not respond to this unless you have some life experience to back up your retort.
That is the reason for the H1B's (despite the FACT that equal talent, albeit not so obedient and meek available domestically...
I have spent 20+ years in IT (IBM, Tibco, MSFT, Sybase, Cisco) so do not respond to this unless you have some life experience to back up your retort.
Quote from noob_trad3r:
Whats there a specific reason why the US decided as a whole to send overseas so many services and industries?
Just curious why it was thought to be a positive long term plan?
I am not an economist so maybe I do not understand what the pros were for this long term plan.
That's probably due to the fact that you used 2008 dollars. One of the biggest problems with running deficits is that it creates inflation...Quote from Cache Landing:
That is an interesting perspective. Law of diminishing returns I guess.
I'm still trying to figure out if there is something to this $4T number. Seems odd to me that for the previous 100 years, the debt and GDP seemed to have little correlation. If I go back 100 years, the picture gets a little more interesting. There is a period of very rapid debt increase as a portion of GDP. Then suddenly the Debt flat lines for something like 25-30 years. Then coincidentally, the year we drop the gold standard, debt starts to increase again, but this time it pretty much stays right in step with GDP growth. IT maintains that correlation for 30 years.
No way that is all coincidence. But I'm trying to figure out the significance of certain events to see if it will allow me to gain a different perspective on the future of our economy.
Quote from AlpineTrout:
This is a great video.
It captures, imo, how the liberal mind thinks. Honestly, I think many liberals want a better world for everyone, but simply rely too much on their emotions and not on facts, logic & reason.
These people want these jobs. Stay out of their business!
Ah yes, the "sweat shops are great, they provide jobs to communities" argument.
Forget about the fact these people could have their wages doubled and we wouldn't even notice it, that's how low their costs are in the final cost of a product.
Or maybe the fact that if you're over 40, you're fired! They only want fresh teens to work in their sweat shops. So much for great opportunities.
Or maybe ask yourself this question, why is it that these poor people have NO jobs? I mean, why aren't they tending the farms, like their ancestors have done for thousands of years? WHERE did these people who spontaneously ask for sweat shop jobs COME from? What were the jobs of their parents, sweat shops? No, they didn't exist then. Think for a second.
Their parents were farmers. Their grand parents were farmers. It all ended with "globalization", with "free food, foreign aid" and with "shock therapy" and subsidized corn from the US forced these farmers to declare bankruptcy, because after thousands of years, their vegetables weren't competitive anymore. It's hard to compete against US agri-business that's subsidized to boot, or free food from rich countries every year.
And so these farmers lost their jobs, and the only food available is out of their reach... unless of course, they work for the heroic sweat shop that rolls into town, that barely pays enough for the US corn on display in the market.
Liberals, republicans, they can all be swayed by emotions. But what beats all of them is cold hard truth. It's why we're here on ET. And not a political board. We value information. These pro-sweat shop groupies are filth. They know they're lying, and they're doing it anyway.
Okay, I have waited on the sidelines enough on this topic....NOW I WILL CUT THIS SHIT DOWN TO SIZE!!!!!!
First, put this tune on, so you get the real mofo mood as to what is going on...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxF-ImXaUdE
NOW READ THIS: THE US CITIZENS HAVE HAD THEIR ASSES SOLD OUT BY THEIR OWN FUCKING POLITICIANS....POLITICIANS WHO SHOULD BE TORTURED TO DEATH - NO I AM NOT KIDDING - THEY SHOULD BE TORTURED TO DEATH!!!
READ THIS LINK -> http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...e+transfer+developed&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us IN THE US - THE CONSTITUTION IS THE "Supreme Law of the Land" UNLESS IT IS SUPERCEDED BY A TREATY THAT THE US ENTERS INTO!!! BY THE WTO TREATY THE US HAS TO TRANSFER OVER TECH. TO UNDERDEVELOPED NATIONS. FOR ALL YOU DUMB FUCKS WHO CAN'T READ ( ESPECIALLY THE fkbsuhites and simple minded liberals of this world) THE US HAS TO OUTSOURCE THE GOOD JOBS!!! WHO SOLD THE US CITIZENS OUT - THE DUMB ASS REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO IN THE PAST AND NOW IN THE PRESENT CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE WTO!!!
When cunts like Hillary C. and Obama claim that they want to save American jobs - I say, "Fuck you!!! Show me your plans to get us out of the WTO!!!" BTW - when Bush was in "power" - I said the same thing of his administration!!!
Edit: I should explain more...the tax breaks that are given to corporations to outsource good US jobs...they are part of the WTO treaty - THE US HAS TO DO THIS - IT IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND!!!! Now do you get it - the US gov't - by being a signatory to the treaty (and making the WTO treaty the "Supreme Law of the Land") - makes it so that the laws of the US have to enforce the treaty - aka - they have to benefit the transfer of technology - aka GOOD JOBS - to "undeveloped nations" - aka - the US HAS TO create tax incentives to outsource good jobs!!! Wake the fuck up Americans - that is the "Supreme Law of the Land"!!!!
-gastropod
First, put this tune on, so you get the real mofo mood as to what is going on...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxF-ImXaUdE
NOW READ THIS: THE US CITIZENS HAVE HAD THEIR ASSES SOLD OUT BY THEIR OWN FUCKING POLITICIANS....POLITICIANS WHO SHOULD BE TORTURED TO DEATH - NO I AM NOT KIDDING - THEY SHOULD BE TORTURED TO DEATH!!!
READ THIS LINK -> http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...e+transfer+developed&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us IN THE US - THE CONSTITUTION IS THE "Supreme Law of the Land" UNLESS IT IS SUPERCEDED BY A TREATY THAT THE US ENTERS INTO!!! BY THE WTO TREATY THE US HAS TO TRANSFER OVER TECH. TO UNDERDEVELOPED NATIONS. FOR ALL YOU DUMB FUCKS WHO CAN'T READ ( ESPECIALLY THE fkbsuhites and simple minded liberals of this world) THE US HAS TO OUTSOURCE THE GOOD JOBS!!! WHO SOLD THE US CITIZENS OUT - THE DUMB ASS REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO IN THE PAST AND NOW IN THE PRESENT CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE WTO!!!
When cunts like Hillary C. and Obama claim that they want to save American jobs - I say, "Fuck you!!! Show me your plans to get us out of the WTO!!!" BTW - when Bush was in "power" - I said the same thing of his administration!!!
Edit: I should explain more...the tax breaks that are given to corporations to outsource good US jobs...they are part of the WTO treaty - THE US HAS TO DO THIS - IT IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND!!!! Now do you get it - the US gov't - by being a signatory to the treaty (and making the WTO treaty the "Supreme Law of the Land") - makes it so that the laws of the US have to enforce the treaty - aka - they have to benefit the transfer of technology - aka GOOD JOBS - to "undeveloped nations" - aka - the US HAS TO create tax incentives to outsource good jobs!!! Wake the fuck up Americans - that is the "Supreme Law of the Land"!!!!
-gastropod
you are right about most of the politicians (they are scum, whores) both left and right, but you are conveniently forgetting the true puppet masters, the big multinationals. The bankrollers of the house, the senate, makers of kings (ok, presidents) If you think for a moment that a politician, even as high as the president of the USA would stand in a way of a giant oil company or insurance company, then you are a naive idiot. They mowe down anyone who seriously threatens their oligarchy and power, this goes by the way for military contractors too.
All the fucking idiots in the US bitch and moan about the "evil" banks, at some level they are choir boys compared to the military industrial complex, oil companies or an insurance giant.
Eisenhower's farewell address, January 17, 1961. Length 15:30.
President of the United States (and former General of the Army) Dwight D. Eisenhower used the term in his Farewell Address to the Nation on January 17, 1961:
"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence â economic, political, even spiritual â is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex
All the fucking idiots in the US bitch and moan about the "evil" banks, at some level they are choir boys compared to the military industrial complex, oil companies or an insurance giant.
Eisenhower's farewell address, January 17, 1961. Length 15:30.
President of the United States (and former General of the Army) Dwight D. Eisenhower used the term in his Farewell Address to the Nation on January 17, 1961:
"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence â economic, political, even spiritual â is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex
Quote from gastropod:
Okay, I have waited on the sidelines enough on this topic....NOW I WILL CUT THIS SHIT DOWN TO SIZE!!!!!!
-gastropod
Quote from loza:
you are right about most of the politicians (they are scum, whores) both left and right, but you are conveniently forgetting the true puppet masters, the big multinationals. The bankrollers of the house senate, makers of kings (ok, presidents) If you think for a moment that a politician, even as high as the president of the USA would stand in a way of a giant oil company or insurance company, then you are a naive idiot. They mowe down anyone who seriously threatens their oligarchy and power, this goes by the way for military contractors too.
All the fucking idiots in the US bitch and moan about the "evil" banks, at some level they are choir boys compared to the military industrial complex, oil companies or an insurance giant.
Eisenhower's farewell address, January 17, 1961. Length 15:30.
President of the United States (and former General of the Army) Dwight D. Eisenhower used the term in his Farewell Address to the Nation on January 17, 1961:
"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence â economic, political, even spiritual â is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex
BTW - I generally agree with what you posted...
These are the steps as I see them...
1.) The "power elite" ("true powers behind the curtains") decided that they couldn't implement their one world government with the US too powerful as a sovereign nation. They decided that the only way they could implement their one world government was to weaken the US. They decided the way to do this was to ruin America economically. Their selected method was to subjugate the people into transferring jobs and technology overseas.
2.) The "power elite" decided that America had to make it a law that America's wealth be transferred out of the country. The "power elite" didn't want the Americans to wriggle their way out of the money/technology/jobs transfer that the power elite wanted done, so the power elite decided that the forced transfer could NOT be done by "simple" law. ("Simple law" would have to have passed the Senate and the House - too messy - the "sheeple" could get upset and complain - like they are doing with the Socialization of medicine). The "power elite" decided that THEIR best method was to place the transfer in a treaty. The treaty method had two benefits to the "power elite." The treaty method meant that only the Senate had to vote on the treaty - no messy arguments amongst House members and the general populace. The other benefit of the treaty method was that it was made the supreme law of the land - all future laws and bills would have to conform to it and not the other way around! The treaty method meant that the general populace couldn't "vote out" the law - it was part of a treaty and the supreme law of the land. It would take either the Senate and President getting us out of the treaty (not likely - since they are the puppets of the "power elite" ) or the there would have to be a change to the Constitution - not likely.
The purpose of my previous post was to wake up the sheeple! If the sheeple REALLY want to stop the transfer of wealth/technology/jobs...then the US has to BEGIN by getting out of the WTO. Any jackass politician who makes a statement that they want to "bring back the jobs" or they say they "want to save the jobs" is full of crap, unless they mention getting out of the WTO. I think any politician who makes such a statement should be confronted with a petition to get the US out of the WTO. If the politician refuses to sign the petition...they should be booed out of the arena, off the stage...whatever!
-gastropod