Why can't "the solution" be LOWER taxes, NO deficits, SMALLER government...?

Quote from Thunderdog:

I'm not sure I agree. I think that the only way to address the exisitng national debt is through taxation for two reasons. First, legitimate social programs should be in place in a modern, civilized society. That's a given that should not even be called into question. Second, I think there is little dispute among ogbjective observers that "trickle-down" economics simply does not work. The country's debt obligations need to be addressed without fucking over the disenfranchised. Otherwise it would be a dangerous game of chicken. Just my opinion, of course.

Why can't the country's debt be addressed by STOPPING DEFICIT SPENDING... we had such a law in '87, but the Gummint shit-canned it when it came time to abide.

WHY DOES THE GUMMINT HAVE TO SPEND 25% MORE THAN IT TAKES IN TAXES EACH YEAR???
 
Quote from gnome:

Why can't the country's debt be addressed by STOPPING DEFICIT SPENDING... we had such a law in '87, but the Gummint shit-canned it when it came time to abide.

WHY DOES THE GUMMINT HAVE TO SPEND 25% MORE THAN IT TAKES IN TAXES EACH YEAR???
That's an excellent question. And although there are few innocent bystanders among past and current governments in this regard, it is a question best asked of the Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. administrations, since their overspending collectively contributed to about 70% of America's total national debt.

So, you can choose to be idealistic and symbolic, and abstain from voting altogether, or you can be pragmatic and realistic, and choose the best candidate likely to win among those available to you. Sure, it's an imperfect world. But if you refuse to play because you can't choose from your desired list of realistic candidates, then you may indirectly and inadvertently be participating in the electing of the less suitable candidate. Unintended consequences, and all that.
 
Quote from Cutten:

No it's because people are ignorant and mainly follow their own self-interest. Most people have no problem robbing Peter to pay Paul as long as they are Paul. Politicians must answer to most people, thus they are forced to collude in robbing Peter so long as there are more Pauls - if they don't they don't get elected.

Politicians are no better or worse than you and I, on average. They all start idealistic. Their incentives are such that they become worse, otherwise they are out of a job.

The system is fucked, but so far no one has found a better one. Disenfranchising the poor has been tried and results in stagnant elitism/tyrrany/mercantilism followed by revolution.

By "revolution" I take it you mean riots?
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

That's an excellent question. And although there are few innocent bystanders among past and current governments in this regard, it is a question best asked of the Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. administrations, since their overspending collectively contributed to about 70% of America's total national debt.

So, you can choose to be idealistic and symbolic, and abstain from voting altogether, or you can be pragmatic and realistic, and choose the best candidate likely to win among those available to you. Sure, it's an imperfect world. But if you refuse to play because you can't choose from your desired list of realistic candidates, then you may indirectly and inadvertently be participating in the electing of the less suitable candidate. Unintended consequences, and all that.

So, which candidate do you think is better... Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich?

(Don't worry, I won't hold it against you regardless of your pick.)
 
Quote from gnome:

So, which candidate do you think is better... Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich?

(Don't worry, I won't hold it against you regardless of your pick.)
I have quite openly favored Obama. I believe he is the better of the TWO AVAILABLE choices. America's treasury has been raped under Bush. McCain's economic policy is, near as I can figure, identical.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

I have quite openly favored Obama. I believe he is the better of the TWO AVAILABLE choices. America's treasury has been raped under Bush. McCain's economic policy is, near as I can figure, identical.

Yeah, I'm afraid Obama is going to prevail. (Of course, if I thought McCain was going to win, I'd be afraid of that too.)

Can we get Jesse Ventura as a write-in candidate??
 
Quote from gnome:

...Can we get Jesse Ventura as a write-in candidate??
Truth be told, I don't know enough about his political career. Although I can say that he talks a good talk on Larry King. I Googled him and came up with this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=jess...s:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

The first entry is:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200212/17_mccalluml_venturalegacy/

And it begins with:

"As Gov. Jesse Ventura prepares to leave office, he ends a term that saw one of the most dramatic four-year shifts in Minnesota's financial picture. Ventura inherited a $4 billion surplus, and leaves office with the state facing a $4.5 billion deficit. Will he be remembered as the man at the helm when the state's economy took a nosedive? Or as a competent CEO who left a lasting stamp on state government?"


So, you tell me.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Truth be told, I don't know enough about his political career. Although I can say that he talks a good talk on Larry King. I Googled him and came up with this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=jess...s:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

The first entry is:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200212/17_mccalluml_venturalegacy/

And it begins with:

"As Gov. Jesse Ventura prepares to leave office, he ends a term that saw one of the most dramatic four-year shifts in Minnesota's financial picture. Ventura inherited a $4 billion surplus, and leaves office with the state facing a $4.5 billion deficit. Will he be remembered as the man at the helm when the state's economy took a nosedive? Or as a competent CEO who left a lasting stamp on state government?"


So, you tell me.

'...Ventura's finance commissioner, Pam Wheelock, says the governor did propose a fiscally responsible plan that would have minimized the current deficit, and lawmakers discarded it. She says Ventura didn't have a single ally in the Legislature for most of his term, yet he still managed to push through some of his major priorities.

"The good news is that it took both of these parties in both of these houses until the last legislative session to really effectively figure out how to box out the governor, because they had no interest in having an Independence Party governor look effective," Wheelock said.

___________________________

Jesse at least TRIED to reduce the size of state government, but the "good old boys" would have none of it. Just another example of how difficult it would be to change the system... the politicos have things just the way they like 'em and have no interest in changing anything.

Minnesota voters elected Independent Jesse because they were tired of the same old crap... didn't change "the system", did it..

America cannot thrive where the private sector keeps losing jobs while all along the Gummint adds jobs.

Bend over and grease up... we're all F*CKED... regardless of who wins in November. :mad:
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

I have quite openly favored Obama. I believe he is the better of the TWO AVAILABLE choices. America's treasury has been raped under Bush. McCain's economic policy is, near as I can figure, identical.

You're missing the point. We only have a favorable administration that does NOT spend like drunken sailors when you have a Congress that is one party and the President of the other party. That's why Reagan worked, that's why Clinton worked and that's one of the big reasons why Bush did not!

If Obama is elected you will have Democrats across the board and if you think the Bush/Republican Congress acted like drunken sailors wait 'til you see the Democratic flush ticket act like Pacman Jones (make it rain) at a topless club! If for no other reason this alone should make you vote McCain and watch it all work. The checks and balances even things out.
 
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