Why are republicans doing this?

Quote from Mike805:

Actually, you just proved his point - gov intervention and funding of weird s--t that no VC firm or private investor would ever touch is why we're ahead. Its a fact that DARPA & the MDA fund very high end technical research that eventually finds its way to engineering and science firms as "free" material. These firms can then innovate on the shoulders of others for little upfront cost. Everyone in the scientific community benefits.

Look, I come from an engineering background. I am a quant who started out working for a firm funded by DARPA and the MDA some time back. The s--t we built saved lives. I helped design algorithms and electronic systems that targeted certain things very very well at high speed under difficult conditions. That research was damn expensive and no commercially oriented firm would touch it. The benefits of that research went directly to many other firms not even remotely related to defense... it was a "trickle down" effect of knowledge gained by the government and given back for free to the scientific community.

Why are you still failing to understand that true libertarianism is flawed in this particular instance? There are many very good aspects to the libertarian party that I really like, but, this idea of not subsidizing science will take us back to the dark ages.
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i get what you're saying but i disagree that it is a flaw in libertarianism.

DARPA is part of the DoD and defense has always been a grey area in this nation. The fed govt has the right and obligation to provide a national defense but most of the tech they have was/is developed by private contractors. Of course those contractors are paid by US taxpayers but again defense is where the public and private sectors meet, and i think it has always been that way. So i think it is unfair to say that certain things developed in the defense sector would never exist without public spending because that is a realm the govt has been operating in since the beginning. We don't know what it would look like if that was not the case. Notice that the USSR couldn't compete during the cold war, and there the govt controlled everything. Most of their advances were due to stealing our stuff anyway.

Anyway we are truly advanced (in terms of defense) compared to the rest of the world and I don't think any Libertarian has a problem with DARPA or paying taxes to support defense related R&D (within reason), I don't. When that expands into non defense related shit like solyndra and electric cars, I DO.
 
Quote from PiggyBank:

i get what you're saying but i disagree that it is a flaw in libertarianism.

DARPA is part of the DoD and defense has always been a grey area in this nation. The fed govt has the right and obligation to provide a national defense but most of the tech they have was/is developed by private contractors. Of course those contractors are paid by US taxpayers but again defense is where the public and private sectors meet, and i think it has always been that way. So i think it is unfair to say that certain things developed in the defense sector would never exist without public spending because that is a realm the govt has been operating in since the beginning. We don't know what it would look like if that was not the case. Notice that the USSR couldn't compete during the cold war, and there the govt controlled everything. Most of their advances were due to stealing our stuff anyway.

Anyway we are truly advanced (in terms of defense) compared to the rest of the world and I don't think any Libertarian has a problem with DARPA or paying taxes to support defense related R&D (within reason), I don't. When that expands into non defense related shit like solyndra and electric cars, I DO.
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According to the article, most government loans of this nature are paid back, presumably with interest. Also according to the article, the government has a better track record in that sense than private VC (hard to imagine a true apples to apples comparison, though). Possibly that's because government has to be more cautious, given the number of watchdogs (like yourself) out there. : )
 
Quote from Maverick74:

If a private individual or company wants to make an investment and take on their own risk, more power to them. They reap the rewards or suffer the consequences. Not so in the public sector. In the public sector they get the upside and the taxpayer gets the downside. No can do sister.
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TSLA will pay early for their loan.


http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/16/tesla-selling-new-stock-debt-worth-830m-to-pay-off-doe-loan/

Palo Alto, CA – May 15, 2013 - Tesla Motors, Inc. (NASDAQ: TSLA) announced today offerings of 2,703,027 shares of common stock and $450 million aggregate principal amount of convertible senior notes due 2018 in concurrent underwritten registered public offerings. In addition, Tesla has granted the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to an additional 405,454 shares of common stock and $67.5 million in aggregate principal amount of the notes.

In addition, Elon Musk, Tesla's Chief Executive Officer and cofounder, intends to purchase shares of common stock at the same public offering price for an aggregate purchase price of $100 million. Of this amount, approximately $45 million would be purchased in the common stock offering, and approximately $55 million would be purchased directly from Tesla in a subsequent private placement due to the waiting period requirements of the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act.

The aggregate gross proceeds of the offerings, including the options granted to the underwriters, and the private placement is expected to be approximately $830 million. Tesla intends to use the net proceeds from the offerings to prepay Tesla's outstanding loan from the United States Department of Energy, pay the cost of convertible note hedge transactions and for general corporate purposes.
 
Quote from trendlover:

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TSLA will pay early for their loan.


http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/16/tesla-selling-new-stock-debt-worth-830m-to-pay-off-doe-loan/

Palo Alto, CA – May 15, 2013 - Tesla Motors, Inc. (NASDAQ: TSLA) announced today offerings of 2,703,027 shares of common stock and $450 million aggregate principal amount of convertible senior notes due 2018 in concurrent underwritten registered public offerings. In addition, Tesla has granted the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to an additional 405,454 shares of common stock and $67.5 million in aggregate principal amount of the notes.

In addition, Elon Musk, Tesla's Chief Executive Officer and cofounder, intends to purchase shares of common stock at the same public offering price for an aggregate purchase price of $100 million. Of this amount, approximately $45 million would be purchased in the common stock offering, and approximately $55 million would be purchased directly from Tesla in a subsequent private placement due to the waiting period requirements of the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act.

The aggregate gross proceeds of the offerings, including the options granted to the underwriters, and the private placement is expected to be approximately $830 million. Tesla intends to use the net proceeds from the offerings to prepay Tesla's outstanding loan from the United States Department of Energy, pay the cost of convertible note hedge transactions and for general corporate purposes.
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Sweetheart, it's not the loan that bothers me, it's the subsidy.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/18/unplug-the-electric-subsidies/
 
Quote from Ricter:

According to the article, most government loans of this nature are paid back, presumably with interest. Also according to the article, the government has a better track record in that sense than private VC (hard to imagine a true apples to apples comparison, though). Possibly that's because government has to be more cautious, given the number of watchdogs (like yourself) out there. : )
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My point was the govt has a legitimate role in defense, it doesn't in electric cars. The govt backing certain companies is an unfair advantage against private competitors and it is NOT a role the federal govt has authority to be involved in. If people wanted shitty electric cars, they would be buying them, and the private manufacturers would be producing them.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Sweetheart, it's not the loan that bothers me, it's the subsidy.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/18/unplug-the-electric-subsidies/
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Maverick, you are trading for your work only, true? That is your only job? So you are trader.
If you are mark to market trader you can write off more than the $3000,00 loss every year.
If you are trader you can write off the margin account interest on the tax form.
Do you think this is (subsidy) to help you make more profit?
 
Quote from trendlover:

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Maverick, you are trading for your work only, true? That is your only job? So you are trader.
If you are mark to market trader you can write off more than the $3000,00 loss every year.
If you are trader you can write off the margin account interest on the tax form.
Do you think this is (subsidy) to help you make more profit?
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O M G !
 
Quote from PiggyBank:

My point was the govt has a legitimate role in defense, it doesn't in electric cars. The govt backing certain companies is an unfair advantage against private competitors and it is NOT a role the federal govt has authority to be involved in. If people wanted shitty electric cars, they would be buying them, and the private manufacturers would be producing them.
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Personally I'd like to see government begin facilitating the expansion of CNG infrastructure, so people would start buying and driving CNG vehicles. Disclaimer: my own business benefiting from that is purely coincidental.
 
Quote from Lucrum:

O M G !
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Lucrum, my question is to Maverick. Stop distractions. I ask Maverick the question because I really want to know what is the difference.
So Maverick can answer me and not be so mean like you Lucrum.
 
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