Why an MRI costs $1,080 in America and $280 in France

The whole medical system is a scam here in the U.S. The doctors, insurance companies, and big pharma all have their hands in our pockets. GOPs can claim that law suits are what drives up prices. That's a drop in the hat. It's nothing. You ask yourself who came first chicken or egg? That is not to say that there shouldn't be any legal reform at all. Just pointing out that that is not the cause of the problem. How often do they get a law suit from a patient? Not everyone is sue happy.

For example, if you successfully sued a hospital for a big screw up that left you debilitated. You got paid 1 million dollars but you still need more surgeries, drugs, therapies, and whatever to make your life tolerable that point on. Well, that 1 million can be gone real quick in our system. At least with Obama care, insurance cannot deny you for previous conditions. Before, if you got really ill or badly hurt in some accident, you lose your job, there goes your insurance. Now you pay 300K for your next surgery.

My mom was hospitalized for 5150 (W&I) out here in CA 3 years ago. She was forced to stay for 2 weeks and forced to take meds there. Well, the bill was $75K. What a joke. Thank God, she was old enough for medicare. Think about how many people they get there that they can charge for huge rates to offset any law suit they get. BTW, an ambulance ride here costs 2K while the EMT's get paid $12-15/hr. What a scam!!!

The Republican party used to be a respected party long ago with Reagan and even Bush Sr. around. Now, it's controlled by some selfish, hypocrite, slimey thugs like Ruppert Murdoch who don't care about the benefits to society but rather bring money to themselves. That is one man I don't care if he gets cancer. Today, they're a laughing stock controlled by Murdoch's lies. I will add that the Dems also are weak in that they can't stay away from legalized bribery by the medical field's lobbyists. Hilary Clinton was all for reforming the medical system in the 90's but she didn't mention a thing when she ran in 08 because she got donations from health insurance companies. Obamacare was a step in the right direction but not enough. They were still held by the money of insurance companies.

Health insurance companies are a big burden here. They're just middle men that gauge off the top. Add unnecessary money to be made from patients and doctors. In Germany, everyone is required to have insurance just like here with Obamacare but the difference is that over there, the companies are non-profit so everything is cheaper.

I agree with an earlier poster that capitalism is many ways has a conflict of interest with the health of a society as a whole.

Sure people on the right wing claim well the best care is here in the U.S. Well, of course if you're willing and have the funds to pay for it here, they'll treat you like a real king. Yeah, for $150 per Asprin in a hospital or one million for your surgery, they'll be real nice to you. LOL

As far as the medical field. Believe me there are plenty of doctors, pharmaceuticals, and insurance companies all placing money over the health of society as a whole. Personally they don't care about other people's health unless they can make fast money or it's themselves or own family members that are ill. Some prefer that people die rather than go all out to help them survive. Believe me, there are many substances out there worth researching for treatment of cancers. But because there's no money in it since they are herbal or not hard to obtain or it's detrimental to other money making drugs in the pipeline, they do not care about them. After all a cheap and safe available treatment for illness would deal a big blow to business as a whole if ever approved by FDA. My aunt had some cysts years ago where a doctor at Stanford told her to have surgery. Because she is afraid of surgery from an operation she had years prior, she took some herbal remedy and those cysts disappeared over time. That same doctor was shocked but I suppose it's not worth investigating. I think the doctor asked to read the bottle of stuff my aunt took and that was it. I'm not here to sell anything because I don't even know what that stuff was but it is a true story. There are many stories of treatments of illnesses that came about because one doctor fought tooth and nail to get it through. The doctor that discover H. Pylori bacteria had to inject it into himself to prove it because his colleagues did not want to believe it. Cures nowadays? Hard to find.

Leaves me to think, there are treatments out there and potential cures for Cancer, HIV, Parkinson's, or Alzheimer's or whatever yet I doubt the medical field at large wants to have a true cure for anything significant. They just want to keep the status quo and have people buy expensive new drugs that keep them alive longer. Milking the system for all its worth. Hey, forget the cure, you're still alive (although barely) and we're making big bucks. HaHa. With big money involved, we're basically just pawns in the game. Yeah they got their lobbyists just like big banks have lobbyists. Politicians cave in to them because now donations matter and are now unlimited. All the while draining you, me, or Uncle Sam for Medicare dollars. You know if they found a cure for Alzheimer's, lots of people in retirement homes would lose their jobs. We don't want that do we? LOL

Don't get me wrong. I'm for capitalism but I'm not for businesses that make money to the detriment of the majority of the society as a whole.
 
Quote from piezoe:

Alternatively the Barbers association could hire a good lobbyist, get a rider attached to a must pass agricultural bill calling for strict licensing of barbers only obtainable by passing a test written by the ABA (American Barber's Association), and imposing heavy fines and jail time for anyone caught cutting hair not so licensed.. Or obtaining clippers without a prescription from a licensed barber, and require that the FDA forbid access to hair products, shampoo etc. without a barbers prescription. :D
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+1.. lobbysts dominate in Washington DC. Citizens United decision? Hmm.. Unlimited contributions? Guess who has the most money? LOL. Not average Joe worker.
 
Sometimes one single fact tells you everything you need to know about whether a system is a business or a scam. Just what is ripped off transporting people is a crime and that's before Ali Babba walks into the room with his white coat on.

The medical gouge is one of the foremost reasons for our impending collapse.


Quote from sfbayarea:

an ambulance ride here costs 2K while the EMT's get paid $12-15/hr. What a scam!!!
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Quote from peilthetraveler:

In the philippines an MRI in the provinces costs just under $60. (But if you go to the capital, Manila, the price jumps to a whooping $150) In Ukraine it costs about $90 for an MRI, and i dont know if its B.S. or not, but I heard someone say an MRI in australia is about $20, but i havent checked that out yet.
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Those are not the real costs, of course. But obviously the the U.S. price is even further away from the real cost.
 
Quote from braincell:

Shouldn't that selection be made based on skill rather than who can pay for education the most? Expensive education often creates overpaid underskilled staff. Some Russian engineers might confirm that with free education, and other parts of Europe.
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you can't rationalize that with people on here for some reason. Increase healthcare spending, decrease military spending. We'd rather spend money killing people than helping them. In fact, we can't even win a war anymore anyways without spending 10 years doing it. So why bother.
 
Quote from sfbayarea:


Don't get me wrong. I'm for capitalism but I'm not for businesses that make money to the detriment of the majority of the society as a whole.
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Quite probably the type of capitalism we have in the U.S., where the capitalists control the government and there is lack of free competition, is incompatible with the kind of medical care and costs that most ordinary citizens want or would be happier with.

I also am a capitalist, and I too believe that a capitalist centered economy is best, but only if the government plays its proper role of protecting free-enterprise from the capitalists.

I don't like the very idea of a completely nationalized, socialized if you will, single payer health care system for everyone. I would much prefer to assume greater risk and have a competitive health care delivery system with wide range of options. That would include, for example, prescribing pharmacists, as in other countries, nurse practitioners permitted to do minor surgeries and prescribe, as in other countries, etc. The right to assume the risk of buying drugs from any source at the lowest cost. A system where the government's role was to provide information, but not restrict access, nor prevent bad choices --only warn against them.

Partly because of regulation, and partly because of lack of competition, and partly because any cost, virtually without limit may be passed on to either the patient or a third party, hospital construction and operation is outrageously expensive. The absurdity of hospital costs in the U.S. is evident when one compares the cost of a night in the Paris Ritz Carleton, or the Colorado Springs Broadmore, including 3 meals at Michelin 3-star restaurants, with the cost of an overnight stay at any U.S. hospital. We have totally lost our minds, folks, to accept this as reasonable, or justifiable.

I want to see the U.S. open up and deregulate medicine. Introduce as much competition as possible, and let us all assume higher risk. But I realize that that is not a solution that would necessarily please the majority. No, i don't want single payer, full-scale socialized medicine in the U.S., but i've reached the conclusion that it couldn't possibly be much worse than what we have now, what with medical expenses being the number one reason for personal bankruptcies. Possibly a hybrid system modeled after Germany's would be a good compromise.

But can we fix our health care problem. No we can't. Not without a revolution. Why? Because you and I are not in control of our government. Vested interests are in control, and they are making a lot of money by keeping things just as they are, and occasionally throwing the masses a small bone that they present to us as progress...
 
US provides a monopoly to insurance companies: In many states there are only two providers. These same insurance companies control the political process and prevent foreign competition.

In the late 90's oversea pharmacy's were able to fill prescriptions at a fraction of the cost here but laws were enacted declaring it illegal.

Insurance companies enact legislation at the state level that bars competition. ie Must have $1B in assets and approval by state regulatory body.

Open up competition to foreign entities and insurance premiums will drop to 1/3. Open up prescriptions to foreign providers and prices will drop significantly.

One example where there is serious price gouging is:
Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy: This treatment is not typically covered under insurance and tends to find a more realistic market price.

All providers use the exact same exact Sequest equipment:

Insurance Covered at Hospital: $1500 per 1 hour treatment
Private provider - private payer: $150.

There is a 10x markup because there is no competitive process for price discovery...

As reasonable as $150 the same service using the same equipment is available in Asia for $15.

Lawyers and Insurance companies are afforded statutory protection of their businesses and novel laws to assist them with collections outside of the court system.
 
@piezoe,

The only problem with capitalism just like communism is people take those things to extremes for their own selfish gain. In the health care system, people can make a ton of money and turn that ton of money to lobbyists and infinite donations to politicians to keep the status quo. This is where people are making money to the detriment of society. Money is unfortunately the thing that makes the world go around not morals or ethics like some of us hope for.

No system is perfect around the world. I don't mind socialism but only with health care. Not all governments run their programs to the ground. I don't want government to run the next computer business. Government is a non-profit entity which is different than private insurance companies and as competition with for profit insurance companies would make them cheaper. Let's not forget that insurance companies make billions. They should open up the insurances to competition make the system cheaper but the lobbyists have a grip on Washington.

If you want to open competition, we need some really really rich guy to start a non-profit health insurance company to compete with the for profits. If course, this rich guy will have to pay to play and have his own lobbyists to get politicians to open it up. Which is tough because all those companies will ban together resources and fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. Perhaps someone can convince Bill Gates or Buffet to do it.

Otherwise, we're screwed. Perhaps you can become a MD yourself and then hook yourself up with deals. Or you can make as much as you can trading to be millionaire so you don't have to worry about hospital stay costs. Perhaps become a dual citizen.
 
Quote from sfbayarea:

@piezoe,

The only problem with capitalism just like communism is people take those things to extremes for their own selfish gain. In the health care system, people can make a ton of money and turn that ton of money to lobbyists and infinite donations to politicians to keep the status quo. This is where people are making money to the detriment of society. Money is unfortunately the thing that makes the world go around not morals or ethics like some of us hope for.

No system is perfect around the world. I don't mind socialism but only with health care. Not all governments run their programs to the ground. I don't want government to run the next computer business. Government is a non-profit entity which is different than private insurance companies and as competition with for profit insurance companies would make them cheaper. Let's not forget that insurance companies make billions. They should open up the insurances to competition make the system cheaper but the lobbyists have a grip on Washington.

If you want to open competition, we need some really really rich guy to start a non-profit health insurance company to compete with the for profits. If course, this rich guy will have to pay to play and have his own lobbyists to get politicians to open it up. Which is tough because all those companies will ban together resources and fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. Perhaps someone can convince Bill Gates or Buffet to do it.

Otherwise, we're screwed. Perhaps you can become a MD yourself and then hook yourself up with deals. Or you can make as much as you can trading to be millionaire so you don't have to worry about hospital stay costs. Perhaps become a dual citizen.
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agree, but it's not that simple, "non profit" is just an accounting word. I think 60% of hospitals file as non profit. I know Blue Cross insurance is a non profit org.

the bitch from the left if we do it your way is only the rich will be able to afford private and all the poor citizens will be stuck with government care.

I know, it makes no sense

health insurance should be for the rich who have assets to protect.

Why does a poor person need health insurance? The hospital by law has to treat you, and what are they gonna do when the bill can't be paid? They will just pass it on to the people who can pay. Isn't that really about the best socialism system which also allows the free market to work?
 
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