Looks nice! What was the net debit + realized P/L to create that?
Who to listen to at ET?
- Thread starter Darc
- Start date
Looks nice! What was the net debit + realized P/L to create that?
I didn't know that either. All I know is that placing and then canceling orders successively especially for large number of times would have you considered as "spoofing" or "layering" but I never knew that IB would label you as "pro" with that excuse. But then again it's IB.
I don't think he was making money. Nor did I. Basically we sort of exhausted "tape reading" using volume and candle patters. It went on for years. After 3 years of intense day trading futures I broke even after comms. OTH all the money I did make was in swing trading.
Haha, I was a retired guy passing time, back then. I should have worked with two friends in a startup, but I passed to hang out with my 12 yo.
Interesting.
So, basically, one of the resident gurus at the time didn't make money and he wasn't able to be a good mentor either with regards to some earlier comment by @newwurldmn using the analogy of sports coaching and someone coaching traders.
Thank you for your honest reply.
I would have paid $1000 if that gave me access to the track records of all members of EliteTrader. I'm sure it would have been interesting.
Back in the days of yore there were so many system sellers that a newsletter was out called Club 3000, because for some reason the cost was clustered around $3000. They hawked algos that traded every which way and there was a rag that forward tested some of the most popular, and (surprise, lol) very few really worked well. The sellers themselves admitted that selling systems or teaching was more profitable than trading, obviously, why would one sell a virtual ATM when all you had to do was follow directions.
Interesting because today with open forums like this picking everything apart, I do not think those guys would get far.
oh, still kind of there, along with CTCN, comforting in a way. Club 3000 (webtrading.org)
Yeah at the time a lot of people (we did not use the word troll), did not believe as a newbie I broke even. So I actually posted a years trades. Churned something like 50K of comms.
Overall I think the issue was too much focus on setups and not enough focus on entry, and exit setups, and exits. AND the fact that there were too many things to track manually AND be consistent. A lot of the things were low-frequency or multi factor, but consistently useful and some just happened too fast. It basically became a Sisyphus tale (the guy pushing a rock up hill).
Also the exits were just plain dumb. In an effort to get over the lame-ness of the exits, a lot of guys did a 3 lot trade. 1 exit at a tick to cover comms, one at a "profit" and one runner. It was always suspect to me even using a simple Excel W:L analysis. It might work in a good algo, but there are better ways, imo.
Which brings me to why I am trading again. Now it is very accessible to do "script" based testing. They call it EASY Language for a reason. It allows for a quick prototyping and it has a good upgrade path (C et al) for production. That being said, setting up a Python VM, and maintaining it with library upgrades, FOR PRODUCTION, is a bit of a task-hurdle in itself.
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Ok, here's my two top members to follow:
@s0mmi (not active anymore but his https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/its-been-3-years-and-im-back.302474/page-14#post-4495158 should be in the hall of fame)
@bone
I'm a MM style spreader who started out in the rates markets and recently (last 2 years) ventured out into nonlinear stuff.
IMHO every single noob should start out spreading delta1 products to learn the ropes and to get to size quickly. I've never met anybody swinging 1000 cars in the ES but I've met a lot who did 3000 clips in the Eurodollars. If it wasn't for spreads I probably would not be able to trade 100s of trash/niche markets against each other today.
Delta1 spreads have everything you need to get going:
- lower vol compared to outrights
- defined no arb criteria that set boundaries to how much a spread can move
- multiple ways to lean on orders, manage inventory
- learn how to read flow and use it as an exit
- and most important: start to trade size. Because size leads to lower commissions and allows you to push things in your favour
@s0mmi and @bone have very different styles. One has been a prop trader and the other one trades trends. Pick your poison, both sources are excellent.
a comment on @TheDawn: look at my profile description...enough said
@s0mmi (not active anymore but his https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/its-been-3-years-and-im-back.302474/page-14#post-4495158 should be in the hall of fame)
@bone
I'm a MM style spreader who started out in the rates markets and recently (last 2 years) ventured out into nonlinear stuff.
IMHO every single noob should start out spreading delta1 products to learn the ropes and to get to size quickly. I've never met anybody swinging 1000 cars in the ES but I've met a lot who did 3000 clips in the Eurodollars. If it wasn't for spreads I probably would not be able to trade 100s of trash/niche markets against each other today.
Delta1 spreads have everything you need to get going:
- lower vol compared to outrights
- defined no arb criteria that set boundaries to how much a spread can move
- multiple ways to lean on orders, manage inventory
- learn how to read flow and use it as an exit
- and most important: start to trade size. Because size leads to lower commissions and allows you to push things in your favour
@s0mmi and @bone have very different styles. One has been a prop trader and the other one trades trends. Pick your poison, both sources are excellent.
a comment on @TheDawn: look at my profile description...enough said
I concur on Bone. I wish I had found him when I started this Trek in 2014. His style is what I discovered is my style now, hehe.
Oh this old trope about classifying traders as retail or institutional is so lame. Institutions are full of douche bags and policies and procedures and all sorts of soul sucking shit. Like HR