Who sees your stops

[NoDoji]

Quote from Myshkin:

NoD, first, utmost respect for you, your journal and all the little dojis, be they dragonflies, gravestones, morning styles or in evening attire (or perhaps you are the personification of the anti-doji, the chart that is the absolute negation of the doji in all its myriad forms, a period of hammers and soldiers, hangmen, outside and inside bars, doji free, through and through...

sorry, to the point, the second point (as the first is perfect and totally subjective regarding where one is at in their trading mind), i will put in a super back up stop way out from the greedy digi-talons of "those that would steal stops" that are kinda close, just in case the power goes out or some crazy news comes out to open a gnarly can of 7 sigma blowout on whatever it is i am trading.

just an idea and much thanks for your journal and other posts, always well thought out

Thank you for your kind words and visions of many dojis

Quite often I only put in a VERY distant disaster stop that honors my max loss pertrade, but many of the setups I trade on are SO well confirmed that any invalidation of the expected price action means I want out of the trade immediately, hence a tight stop.

 

[tradeshark]

Whether seen or unseen the pros know where to go to hit them and they will do it just to confuse everyone even if they take small losses. Simple as that.

 

[Redneck]

Quote from NoDoji:

RN, I had this happen yesterday and the inside bid/ask didn't even move; my STP which was quite some distance away from the Ask suddenly turned black, I was down $78 and price continued from in what would've been my favor.

I don't really understand how this happens. If for example the inside bid/ask is 25.20/25.21, how can a stop @ 25.30 be lifted without those bid/ask prices even moving.

Do you avoid using hard stops at all as a result this possibly happening?

Hey NOD,

I use mental hard stops – and set them at a point where I know the reason I entered the trade has failed

If that point also happens to be at a logical point – then I will reduce my initial share size a bit and move the stop point out – I can always add to it later.. or accept the greater risk and see what happens (I should add – rarely do I exceed 1.5% risk on my base account, and never exceed 2.5%)

Btw – I do not recommend newer traders use mental stops as they are too easy to violate

However I know if I don’t honor them I will break my account – been there done that


Take Care Ma’am

RN

 

[JCBLESS]

LOL

to all of the comments.

Market Makers can and will hit your stops.
They see and create a market.

The Smaller the Broker/Dealer the more often you are screwed.

Retail Forex= Joke Name them, I laugh-

Trade with the largest bank, under the radar and dont become a target.

 

[Redneck]

Quote from NoDoji:

2. Protects me in the event my trading platform locks up or there's a power failure. And trust me anything seemingly impossible can find a way to go wrong, and trading is not the environment you want to be in without protection. Not long ago we had a power outage about 4 seconds after I put on a position more than twice my usual size and had just put in my stop. We have two internet connections and UPS's on our systems, but as luck would have it the internet connections somehow both failed and by the time we got them back, the UPS's had timed out. In that hour of downtime, I could easily have been down 2-3 times my max daily loss with this volatile stock.

NOD,

You bring up a great point here

We must always have an emergency back up plan, or two

I have the hard wired desktop running

I have the laptop running with a wireless connection

I have my emergency contact list within arms reach every day

And based on last year’s one failure (platform lock up) – I verify the contact list is accurate every quarter – I added that “to do” to my business plan


RN

 

[Wallace]

it's typical of a newbie to write how his fx broker stole his money by 'manipulating the price'
to hit his Stop

regardless of who the broker is, ime ALL fx brokers' price data move virtually the same at
the same time including the Globex currencies, tho there may be a difference of up to 2pips
between their prices

however the price moves regardless whether or not stops exist and all the retail fx brokers
including Globex are only a small part of the daily $ volume of fx trading, so the 'Stops being
seen' idea is nebulous, however, as i was saying just last week:
"i don't analyse other instruments in such detail as the 6E/eurusd, but you probably
know that the euro has a tendancy of repeating, that is it doesn't run in a nice easy
1 2 3 4 5 abc continue as some other instruments do, it forms what i refer to as ABs -
Reversal formations, so an ABC can form for example AB A, B, AB, C then the next wave"

now Stops aside it's an interesting subject to try and understand the how and why of price
movement/trading since the better one understands it the greater one's profits
so i think Kicking has raised a valid and important question, more so if it also goes to my
broader question — 'what is the how and why of price movement'

 

[Myshkin]

Quote from NoDoji:

Thank you for your kind words and visions of many dojis

Quite often I only put in a VERY distant disaster stop that honors my max loss pertrade, but many of the setups I trade on are SO well confirmed that any invalidation of the expected price action means I want out of the trade immediately, hence a tight stop.

Aye, have read your posts and know the tenet of move-in-the-direction-the-signal-indicated-NOW-or-seeya is your general MO I guess I was thinking in terms of MY somewhat discretionary trading where I will sometimes hold a position beyond where I would have a potential stop if something else has changed, like the whole market or industry the stock is in has turned and this one is lagging a bit, it is just a few more cents to a marble solid support/resistance line or even if it has languished in a sideways trend for so long that it is doing the tango with the 20 bar SMA. depends on the day, but half the time for me, that type of indecisive motion translates into scratching the trade.

so, am i answering the question as to who sees? no, but as i believe the redneck had pointed out, even the regular folks like you and me can give an educated guess as to where some stops are and especially with the less aqueous stocks, one can supposedly buy/short a block and push it through the support/resistance, let the triggering stops fuel the move out a few more cents as you unwind your then unwanted position and pick up/borrow the stock at a better price reaping the profit as it moves back into its range. of course, i have never done this but a friend of a friend of a friend has made some money with it, or so they said to my friend's friend

 

[saliva]

Quote from Kicking:

I have used stops only overnight, but now I no longer use them because it's guaranteed I have a loss in the morning. Placing a stop is akin to asking for a loss.

I once knew a guy who took pride in not using stops. One day, he was down by more than 20 handles trading ES. He told me he wasn't worried because deep down he "knew" it would come back up. Sure enough, within the next two hours it crept back up to just about where he got in. Well, let me cut to the chase and jump right to the final chapter. The dude is no longer around.

So when you blurt out "Placing a stop is akin to asking for a loss", I say think again. One of these days, you will wake up to realize that the market ain't coming back to give you another chance and, more sooner than later, you'll be on fast-track to the poorhouse.

 

[speres]

Quote from Kicking:

I have always accepted the idea that on an an exchange, stops are not seen by anybody, FX is different of course. But I noticed over the years especially those past two years, that in any market , any stop serving the purpose of limiting my losses is likely to be triggered.

And despite using one of the better FX brokers, if I place a stop, it's virtually guaranteed it will be triggered, even if it's 100 pips away. I also allow for a 20-30 pip margin past the key level that I think proves me wrong. Still it will most of the time be triggered by a spike . I have used stops only overnight, but now I no longer use them because it's guaranteed I have a loss in the morning. Placing a stop is akin to asking for a loss.

I am starting to believe in conspiracy theories.

conspiracy theories???? Of course stops are taken out and 'swept' for, this is part and parcel of the game, you should know this if you've been around for so long...