Who profits when retail traders lose?

[shelupinin]

Quote from bighog:

Because there is no such thing as an "EDGE". Your trading strategy, tactics and DISCIPLINE implementing that "PLAN OF ATTACK" is what many call their edge.

A so called "EDGE" is nothing more than you as an individual doing what works for you.

I partly agree with you.
But I don't agree that there is no such thing like "edge".
Without "edge" you just toss coin with 50% probability plus pays for every toss (comissions).
not every strategy works, not every tactic works, so "edge" is not everywhere. If something works for you fine, than it means that this tactic has "edge". But many new traders don't have even simple "edge".
so your "trading strategy" that works IS "edge".
discipline alone not "edge".

 

[shelupinin]

Quote from bighog:

Because there is no such thing as an "EDGE". Your trading strategy, tactics and DISCIPLINE implementing that "PLAN OF ATTACK" is what many call their edge.

A so called "EDGE" is nothing more than you as an individual doing what works for you.

EDIT: It boils down to discipline in using your signals that are honed down to where they are "GOLDEN" signals for you. There are no secrets in trading. I could tell many my entire plan of attack and say with confidence 99% will never use it or tweak it to death because they have not DEVELOPED the same confidence in MY golden signals as i have. They might think it has value but what would happen to their confidence if they tried one of my signals and it produced 3 losers in a row?

See where i am coming from? My plan (edge) is mine and mine only because i paid the dues in developing the discipline to follow the GOLDEN bricked road.

with your "edited" message I tend to agree more ...
but anyway if you trade and do it successfully than it means you have advantage over coin toss and over monkey with keyboard... I do agree that discipline is extremely importan, but anyway "edge" should be putted at first place in any trading rules... I do agree that it's extremely important to beleive your own system to be able to continue trading after several consecutive losses, but anyway you can beleive the system that works, you can't beleive system that did not give you money in the past
and as I said before, many new traders don't have even simple system with "edge"... following some MA or oscillator is not a system that have "edge"...

 

[andrewbee]

Quote from bighog:


EDIT: It boils down to discipline in using your signals that are honed down to where they are "GOLDEN" signals for you. There are no secrets in trading. I could tell many my entire plan of attack and say with confidence 99% will never use it or tweak it to death because they have not DEVELOPED the same confidence in MY golden signals as i have. They might think it has value but what would happen to their confidence if they tried one of my signals and it produced 3 losers in a row?

Well said. In other words, only confidence in the tried-and-true long term performance of a system will give you the balls to continue trading it through rough patches. That confidence usually comes from having developed and honed it yourself.

 

[Bogan7]

Quote from Option Trader:

My friend, I've been on this board longer than you, and have been an active trader about the whole time.

Mate I started in this game in 1992 worked in London for some major houses (Merrill, GNI, Man) even helped setup a small hedge fund while you are some 2 bit retail piker (like i am these days) who still thinks the world is out to get him. Piss off and smell the coffee.

 

[Bogan7]

Quote from bighog:

Because there is no such thing as an "EDGE". Your trading strategy, tactics and DISCIPLINE implementing that "PLAN OF ATTACK" is what many call their edge.

A so called "EDGE" is nothing more than you as an individual doing what works for you.

EDIT: It boils down to discipline in using your signals that are honed down to where they are "GOLDEN" signals for you. There are no secrets in trading. I could tell many my entire plan of attack and say with confidence 99% will never use it or tweak it to death because they have not DEVELOPED the same confidence in MY golden signals as i have. They might think it has value but what would happen to their confidence if they tried one of my signals and it produced 3 losers in a row?

See where i am coming from? My plan (edge) is mine and mine only because i paid the dues in developing the discipline to follow the GOLDEN bricked road.

You have a very good point my system is very basic and on its own would lose money if you just followed the signals. My key was working out my money management strat that allows me to get a bit out of the market most days with a few big days hopefully during the month while keeping drawdowns to as low a level as i can get.

 

[Option Trader]

Hottpotat0, Thank you!

Quote from hottpotat0:

it goes like this-the big firms use trading algorithms run by bots/computers-they can see order flow and who bought how much at what price-level 3 book-now market makers(they have level 3 also) job is to make a market-market is supposed to be based on supply and demand-if their is no demand-market maker can and does often create -demand so as to [1]squeeze shorts by running up the price and/or trying to get retail to buy the cover rally runup- market maker then creates supply/oversupply- sells short and naked as long as he covers within 3 days maybe its 14?-which runs the price down-pannicked buyers sell which the market maker then buys to cover but does it slowly so stock keeps dropping , setting off sell stops-he buys up all the selling volume(covers) and then does it all over again!!! read "Reminiscences of a stock operator"
nothing has changed
pools=hedge funds
bucketshops= retail trading shops
operators= investment banks
manipulation=operating
larry livermore lays it all out to see clear as day-nothing new under the sun-only way to trade is to follow Goldman Sachs or other big firms-ride their coatails -they set the trend -volume will hide your presence somewhat-if volume is thin you will be trading against the market maker most of the time-they control the market so you cannot win-that is why most trade within the first 45 minutes of opening bell-that the bets-other betters going for the table-i dont know what else to tell you except your own brokerage house can front run your order-clear from in house(sell from thier market makers pool)your order never even hits the trading floor!!! or trade against you-your broker makes commision and your losss is their gain ...litterally
all the odds arew against you-the trend is your friend-no one else is-oh gap down means massive shorting before/during opening then the stock will creep up as they start to buy to cover(UNLESS SOMTHING WRONG WITH COMPANY)-reverse that for gap up-every body buys then sells(HYPE RALLY)-TREND IS YOUR FRIEND! WATCH VOLUME WITH PRICE!!! hide and seek

Bogan, it seems with ALL your experience, knowledge & powers of critique, if there would ever be someone who could counter hottpotat0's posting, it would definitely be you...

Quote from Bogan7:
Mate I started in this game in 1992 worked in London for some major houses (Merrill, GNI, Man) even helped setup a small hedge fund while you are some 2 bit retail piker (like i am these days) who still thinks the world is out to get him. Piss off and smell the coffee.

 

[canuckrookie]

Quote from bighog:

Because there is no such thing as an "EDGE". Your trading strategy, tactics and DISCIPLINE implementing that "PLAN OF ATTACK" is what many call their edge.

A so called "EDGE" is nothing more than you as an individual doing what works for you.

EDIT: It boils down to discipline in using your signals that are honed down to where they are "GOLDEN" signals for you. There are no secrets in trading. I could tell many my entire plan of attack and say with confidence 99% will never use it or tweak it to death because they have not DEVELOPED the same confidence in MY golden signals as i have. They might think it has value but what would happen to their confidence if they tried one of my signals and it produced 3 losers in a row?

See where i am coming from? My plan (edge) is mine and mine only because i paid the dues in developing the discipline to follow the GOLDEN bricked road.

I feal the same way at this point. I have tried many strategies and lost enough money while trying them. Now I have a system that works well, I am getting more experienced and am making less mistakes and more profitable trades.