Who is Woodie???

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I probably wouldn't reply but you irritate me so what the heck. Let me just raise a few questions about your post.

1. I am not vaguely convinced that the number of teachers you have failed to learn from qualifies you as an expert. It wouldn't in law, engineering or medicine - why do you think it should in trading?

2. You might wander whether your experience caused you to become a quick cynic or whether some element of your personality causes you to repeatedly fail to learn. It seems that you can fail quickly now - one session to fail again does seem to qualify you for an A+

3. If you have spent years seeking profits then maybe you should look within to find out what is causing your continual failure.

4. An answer here. The room has certainly produced a number of consistently profitable traders who I know but you will miss most of them with a short look.

5. Another answer. We have a lot of resources to help people use Sierracharts and IB for their trading. 7 bucks a month is pretty reasonable and I wouldn't bother with esignal either.

6. You fail to learn even when its written in plain english on the forum. The quoted "moderator" isn't a moderator and doesn't claim to be. Given 1,2 and 3 I suspect that we all can guess what your results will be.

7. How do you know that trading without prices will bankrupt you or anyone else if you have never tried it. Is this one of the learning processes that took you thru four years of gurus?

8. If as you claimed you "decided to rely on myself and no one else" why did you come to woodie's room? And why after claiming that trading success is different for everyone do you then claim that everyone must follow your path - surely you don't want to be the guru of self reliance do you?

9. Why apologise after appearing to be deliberately offensive? And if you can't see where that might have been then perhaps that is a bit more learning for you to spend time on. Being honest with yourself is important in trading - it will help you overcome ego issues.


I agree that some of your posters are very good. People like scientist and Aaron I know in particular.

I agree that trading is a hard business. I find profitable trading to be simple but it has taken a long time for it to become easy - and it still is difficult at times. Woodie's approach to the CCI won't work for everyone who goes to his room for lots of reasons but it is a simple method that can work if you put the effort in. This is not likely to be a problem that you will ever have.

Have you considered that the problem might not be with the people you label gurus or the groups you label cults. Perhaps there is a learning disability. Perhaps trading is not for you. Perhaps a bunch of people on elite are taking your money day by day? Heaven forbid that any of them might be from Woodie's room.

Darn, I think I could be getting to like the Elite way Dave. Thanks for the invitation - another 1000 posts and I could get quite good at the local style. But the markets have opened so I have to go. See you later.

Kiwi
 
I guess I must be an idiot, I use the Jurik CCI as a leading indicator. If I had read here earlier that leading indicators do not work I would not have seen the divergence between the ES new low at 12:36 Thursday and the higher low in the CCI that was indicating a change in direction was possible.

When the move started I was ready to jump on and let it run. I missed the high (too greedy, I wanted it to go further) but still made more than I had all morning.

Then I noticed the spike high of 1126.5 at 1:17 was plotting a much lower high on the CCI. I hadn't been told yet that leading indicators don't work, so I shorted the ES and picked up a smaller gain as it fell.

Divergence is a leading indicator. No it is not always right but a filter or two added for confirmation can make it fairly accurate for picking turning points. I also prefer the Jurik version of CCI as it plots smoother. Less confusion = Less whipsawing.

Someone mentioned "counting". That may be a filter that would say something like don't take a trade until you count three or four bars with accelerating momentum. Someone here posted that would be too hard for them to do.

I don't know Woodie so I can't say much about his method but I will never understand why so many at ET want to spit in the face of someone offering a different perspective. I think I learn a little every where I go even if I decide it has no use in my trading style.

Have a good one.
 
Quote from chasmann:

I guess I must be an idiot, I use the Jurik CCI as a leading indicator. If I had read here earlier that leading indicators do not work I would not have seen the divergence between the ES new low at 12:36 Thursday and the higher low in the CCI that was indicating a change in direction was possible.
More...
Chasman,
Are you saying that a slowing in momentum can't be detected by looking at price action?
That is one perspective, please join in the discussion about it on this thread:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=29876
 
Quote from kiwi_trader:

I probably wouldn't reply but you irritate me so what the heck. Let me just raise a few questions about your post.

1. I am not vaguely convinced that the number of teachers you have failed to learn from qualifies you as an expert. It wouldn't in law, engineering or medicine - why do you think it should in trading?

2. You might wander whether your experience caused you to become a quick cynic or whether some element of your personality causes you to repeatedly fail to learn. It seems that you can fail quickly now - one session to fail again does seem to qualify you for an A+

3. If you have spent years seeking profits then maybe you should look within to find out what is causing your continual failure.

4. An answer here. The room has certainly produced a number of consistently profitable traders who I know but you will miss most of them with a short look.

5. Another answer. We have a lot of resources to help people use Sierracharts and IB for their trading. 7 bucks a month is pretty reasonable and I wouldn't bother with esignal either.

6. You fail to learn even when its written in plain english on the forum. The quoted "moderator" isn't a moderator and doesn't claim to be. Given 1,2 and 3 I suspect that we all can guess what your results will be.

7. How do you know that trading without prices will bankrupt you or anyone else if you have never tried it. Is this one of the learning processes that took you thru four years of gurus?

8. If as you claimed you "decided to rely on myself and no one else" why did you come to woodie's room? And why after claiming that trading success is different for everyone do you then claim that everyone must follow your path - surely you don't want to be the guru of self reliance do you?

9. Why apologise after appearing to be deliberately offensive? And if you can't see where that might have been then perhaps that is a bit more learning for you to spend time on. Being honest with yourself is important in trading - it will help you overcome ego issues.


I agree that some of your posters are very good. People like scientist and Aaron I know in particular.

I agree that trading is a hard business. I find profitable trading to be simple but it has taken a long time for it to become easy - and it still is difficult at times. Woodie's approach to the CCI won't work for everyone who goes to his room for lots of reasons but it is a simple method that can work if you put the effort in. This is not likely to be a problem that you will ever have.

Have you considered that the problem might not be with the people you label gurus or the groups you label cults. Perhaps there is a learning disability. Perhaps trading is not for you. Perhaps a bunch of people on elite are taking your money day by day? Heaven forbid that any of them might be from Woodie's room.

Darn, I think I could be getting to like the Elite way Dave. Thanks for the invitation - another 1000 posts and I could get quite good at the local style. But the markets have opened so I have to go. See you later.

Kiwi
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:eek: :eek: :eek:


Regards,
Dave Scott
 
Chasman,

I too feel that CCI divergence is a decent leading indicator, at least you get a shortening of the odds which is essential in improving the risk reward ratio.

Could you enlighten me about your use of the Jurik CCI. I use it as well, but have not found a way yet to apply it to the CCI, unless you mean the cci + ma of cci? if so which settings do you use?

thnx:)
 
What an excellent post, Dave. I'm sure you won't be surprised if few people get it, least of all Kiwi, who sounds like a real prize.

I just replied to an email this morning from someone who remarked how difficult the learning curve was due to all that one had to unlearn. I commented that the pioneers had it easy compared to us because they had to learn markets by studying markets. Nearly all of us, however, learn markets by studying what somebody says about them.

I've enjoyed this thread. I'd forgotten just how loony people can be. But what I will keep with me is the memory of that woman who trades without looking at price. I wonder if the windows on her car are painted black?
 
Ok I said I wasn't going to comment on this thread anymore but I just have to.

wdscott you obviously have some issues and anger towards system vendors AS DO I trust me, I've given them probably more of my hard earned money and allot more of my time then you.

However

I never once went to any vendor or educator with the expectation that they where something special or great. (This is my definition of what would qualify someone to look like a guru in my opinion).

I always approached these people with the attitude that they probably couldn't trade (Just like a professor in University usually doesn't work directly in the field they are teaching) but rather they had some kind of VIEW on the market that I did not and with my 20 years experience in the industry I could probably find away to use that VIEW better than them. (I was a stockbroker and successful stock and options investor for years)

Before I found out about ET I was spending money at a rapid rate with these vendors and my conclusions where, that they where useless and that the material that most of them taught was readily available in MANY of the much lower priced books that one could buy on the many different VIEWS on futures trading ie: Gann, Fibs, Price Action, Patterns etc....

So ET is a true blessing for me also because the help and advise I have taken and shared with others in this room has been the best thing for my Futures trading education that has ever happened.

Thank You all so much:)

What still alludes me with this post though is why you guys are picking on Woodie? If every vendor or educator was doing it the way he is we would all be way ahead of the game.

What I learned from woodie's room about the cci was an amazing education on the indicator that would have cost thousands of dollars from another vendor easily.

I do not even use the cci but it was a great education in how it could be used if it suited you.

So what the heck is the big deal leave the man alone.

This thread has become personal and childish now and the best thing that can come from it is that a newbie will read the entire thread and learn that the best way to learn how to trade is 3 fold.

1. Education : Read as many BOOKS on the different VIEWS that you can. I do not even have anything against going into SOME paid rooms to watch the teachers View in action. (DO NOT BUY ANY COURSE OR MATERIAL OVER $500 MAX no matter what they tell you unless it comes with a 100% moneyback guarantee)

2. Utilize free forums and rooms like ET and share your stories of success and failure. If you lose your ego and lay it on the line in a room like this and you read the threads diligently for BOTH sides of the subject you will LEARN bigtime. Keep an open mind and stay positive but respect the negative posts to.

3. Screentime and study: This is where you will find no shortcut and experience will take time and everyone is different so accept the fact that there is no destination JUST a journey.

OK now I'm really done with this thread :) :) :)

Good trading all, time to go to work the markets await .....
 
Quote from chasmann:

I.

fell.

1/ Divergence is a leading indicator. No it is not always right but a filter or two added for confirmation can make it fairly accurate for picking turning points.


Have a good one.
More...

1/ You are correct ! Two unrelated filters make CCI superior to any other indicator.
 
Quote from sinoks:

Chasman,

I too feel that CCI divergence is a decent leading indicator, at least you get a shortening of the odds which is essential in improving the risk reward ratio.

Could you enlighten me about your use of the Jurik CCI. I use it as well, but have not found a way yet to apply it to the CCI, unless you mean the cci + ma of cci? if so which settings do you use?

thnx:)
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Jurik calls his version of the CCI the JRC CCX.2k. If you have a legal license for the Jurik JMA you can get the JRC CCX for free at Juriks website. This graphic compares the CCI and CCX.

http://www.jurikres.com/gifs/CCX_demo.gif

You see how the CCX is much smoother and looks more like a slow stochastic. It shows clear divergence at many turning points well B-4 I would have seen it by looking at price only. Perhaps some here would disagree but I like to use simple tools that work for me. This is one of my favorites.

If you get the free CCX be sure to download the version for your charting package.

Have a good one.
 
Quote from Samson77:

What still alludes me with this post though is why you guys are picking on Woodie?
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Read the first post. Hardly "picking on" anybody. The same questions have been asked of Raschke, Lo, Frederickson, Pristine, RT, and all sorts of other vendors.

However, the self-aggrandizing and self-righteous responses have been unusual, if not unique, not only in their number, but in their vehemence. Those who can't stand the heat . . . :eek:
 
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