Who is winning in the west: christianity or atheism?

Quote from Free Thinker:

if you are too lazy to search for the answers you should at least note of where the people that spend their lives studying these things are:



I wonder if it bothers the religious that atheists have brilliant physicists, biologists, mathematicians arguing for the atheist side, while they have, really, no one of credible intelligence.
What should I trust . . . the scientific method which allows 1000 independent scientists to come to the same conclusion . . . or a 1000 independent theists who each hold a separate picture of supposedly the same single deity, and all without a shred of evidence or research to repeat independently? Whatever we do know about the universe is all due to science -
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If you are too lazy to search for answers, I'll do it for you.

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What do scientists think about religion?

According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24

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Here's a an article by Dr. Francis Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project and one of the most respected scientists in the world.

Collins: Why this scientist believes in God

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-03/us/collins.commentary_1_god-dna-revelation?_s=PM:US
 
For someone of average intelligence there is no working or intellectual difference between agnostic and atheist. Agnostic is atheist.
 
Quote from stu:

Agnosticism is a self-contradicting, self-defeating religious statement and a cop out. Agnosticism says it is known that knowledge of a God cannot be known. :confused:
Atheism is perhaps more honest in saying there is no good reason to even consider trying to know about something that by definition cannot be known about.

Theists believe in the existence of a god or gods, or believe there could be a god or gods and so rely on blind faith as a sort of justification.

Agnostics either don't believe, then they are atheist, or they believe there could be a god or gods by relying on the contradiction of knowing they can't know as a justification, similarly in the way a theist will rely on blind faith. Agnosticism is an actual lack of belief which of course is atheist.

Atheists either find no good reason to believe (which is basically what so called agnosticism is saying), or they just don't accept there is any existence of a god or gods.

However it does seem odd as someone who considers themself agnostic, who in practical terms is atheist, apparently assumes atheists will hate, fear and ridicule theists. In that regard I would suggest you are severely misinformed.
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Well, I think your description of agnosticism omits the nuances of difference between atheism and theism. While you are logically correct that because an agnostic is not a theist, he is therefore an atheist, this syllogic statement ignores the reality that human belief systems can't be fully described in simple terms of logic.

An agnostic can indeed exist between the two poles, unprepared to deny the existence of God yet unwilling to accept wholeheartedly that God does not exist. It's part of an individual's existential journey to make a decision for oneself.
 
Quote from L-Kabong:

Well, I think your description of agnosticism omits the nuances of difference between atheism and theism. While you are logically correct that because an agnostic is not a theist, he is therefore an atheist, this syllogic statement ignores the reality that human belief systems can't be fully described in simple terms of logic.

An agnostic can indeed exist between the two poles, unprepared to deny the existence of God yet unwilling to accept wholeheartedly that God does not exist. It's part of an individual's existential journey to make a decision for oneself.
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I suggest it's fair to say human belief systems that can't be fully described in simple terms of logic, are generally found to be illogical, incoherent or inconsistent. Religious belief systems are often all three.
Not described in simple terms perhaps, yes, as human feelings expressed in the emotional and superstitious shape of religion, are going to be anything but simple.

However, I suggest that is not reason to excuse human belief systems as something existential, as if to say they deserve some special dispensation from the normal intellectual rigor all other understanding, basic through complex, is subject to.

Furthermore, I'd say it is not that agnostics are unprepared to deny the existence of God. Far from it. In that regard it is said they know they can't know enough to deny it!

If they can neither deny or affirm, for whatever premise or conclusions they want, they exist in between as you say. Then they are neutral. It is not a nuance.
The point I would make is like with pregnancy, there are really only two circumstances.

Neutral about belief in a God is to be without the belief to be a theist. Without belief is de facto atheist. It's what the 'a' is there to denote. Atheist might go on further to deny there can even be the existence of a God, but essentially it is the lack of faith and belief for an atheist.

Gnosticism IS theism. Simply another variation of Christianity using Platonic references.
Atheism is to theism as apolitical is to political, as Gnostic is to agnostic, which is bottom line right there with atheist.

An individual's personal decision as to what they believe or do not is I think a separate issue entirely.
 
Quote from bigarrow:

For someone of average intelligence there is no working or intellectual difference between agnostic and atheist. Agnostic is atheist.
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How about for someone of above average intelligence?
 
Quote from stu:

I suggest it's fair to say human belief systems that can't be fully described in simple terms of logic, are generally found to be illogical, incoherent or inconsistent. Religious belief systems are often all three.
Not described in simple terms perhaps, yes, as human feelings expressed in the emotional and superstitious shape of religion, are going to be anything but simple.

However, I suggest that is not reason to excuse human belief systems as something existential, as if to say they deserve some special dispensation from the normal intellectual rigor all other understanding, basic through complex, is subject to.

Furthermore, I'd say it is not that agnostics are unprepared to deny the existence of God. Far from it. In that regard it is said they know they can't know enough to deny it!

If they can neither deny or affirm, for whatever premise or conclusions they want, they exist in between as you say. Then they are neutral. It is not a nuance.
The point I would make is like with pregnancy, there are really only two circumstances.

Neutral about belief in a God is to be without the belief to be a theist. Without belief is de facto atheist. It's what the 'a' is there to denote. Atheist might go on further to deny there can even be the existence of a God, but essentially it is the lack of faith and belief for an atheist.

Gnosticism IS theism. Simply another variation of Christianity using Platonic references.
Atheism is to theism as apolitical is to political, as Gnostic is to agnostic, which is bottom line right there with atheist.

An individual's personal decision as to what they believe or do not is I think a separate issue entirely.
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You make a good argument, but we aren't going to agree. Yes, you are either pregnant or not, except if you are that British female soldier on the front lines, who wasn't pregnant until she went into labor.

You say agnostics know their knowledge is insufficient to deny the existence of God, but perhaps thier knowledge of God is insufficient to accept such existence. Atheists in the West reject the existence of a Judeo-Christian god as they feel the evidence is unquestionably thier favor of a Godless universe, whereas agnostics are still pondering the issue. Yes, they lack theism, but they are not robust full fledged atheists.

I think we could argue all day but it seems we are both right if we agree that there are different strains of agnosticism.

One thing I know is you are definitely not agnostic on the particular question of what agnosticism means!
 
Quote from tomdavis:

If you are too lazy to search for answers, I'll do it for you.

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What do scientists think about religion?

According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24

=========================

Here's a an article by Dr. Francis Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project and one of the most respected scientists in the world.

Collins: Why this scientist believes in God

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-03/us/collins.commentary_1_god-dna-revelation?_s=PM:US
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had you bothered to look deeper at the data you would have found that their term "scientist" includes many professions not related to the question at hand. it includes computer scientists,social scientists,building scientists ect. if you go to scientists who actually study the question at hand like biologists or cosmologists the number of believers drops to like 7%.
francis collins is an interesting case. if someone such as him actually presented evidence for his belief in god we would have to take notice. however if you read his work you find no such evidence. he simply "feels" there has to be a god. no evidence needed.

http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2006/12/deluded-scientist.html
 
Belief In God Plummets Among Youth
The younger generation is abandoning God in droves.

A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millennials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

Among other generations, belief in God is high and has seen few changes in recent decades. Between 81 and 89 percent of older generations say they never doubt the existence of God, although the older the generation, the more likely they are to believe in God.

The chart below reflects the Pew survey’s latest findings.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/belief-in-god-plummets-millenials.php?ref=fpb
 
To answer the thread title "Who is winning in the west: christianity or atheism?
The real question who is winning christianity or knowledge and yes knowledge is winning and will win. Education, progress, easy access to information has doomed christianity and all other religions. Worried about muslims in the middle east, our foreign aid dollars should be used to set up internet that can't be disabled by state governments, knowledge and information can lead to the unradicalization of the muslims, like it's done for the christians around the world.
 
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