who is tesla's energy storage (namely power wall/bank) competitor?

[Cabin111]

Do you own one? What's the purpose if you don't have photovoltaics and/or a Tesla?

No...And I do not know the industry (electrical). I could not tell you an amp from a volt. I tried to price them a few months ago...Just asking around. I think Semper Solaris installs the Tesla batteries...But would no do it my county. I will wait for prices to drop and more choices of power packs, before I consider buying a system. Also, in California, ALL new homes have to have some solar in them...ALL!!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...solaris.com/&usg=AOvVaw05NGYq6ZZRooUBhNOa6k8d

 

[Cuddles]

I will say one thing...Tesla's power wall is the best in the industry. You can see people who's Tesla is junked for salvage, then use their battery as a power wall (Youtube). Also price wise, the average Tesla power wall runs about $9,000. while others in the industry run about $6,000. They are that much better. I still am holding Panasonic...I believe they have the know how (since they have partnered with Tesla) to become an industry leaders in this area. I have looked into the Tesla power wall in my area...Modesto CA. No one will install or service a Tesla power wall here. They are limited to big cities as of this time...

My understanding is they have tighter cell to cell tolerances...I'm not sure their energy density is that much higher than other makes. I'm also hearing rumors they push their hardware closer to the design limit (cells have a safe discharge rate limit), the drawback being a shorter lifespan. No big deal if they can just push performance downgrades OTA as the battery ages. Essentially, that's pretty scummy....hooking you w/max performance, then downgrading you to avoid warranty claims.

Also, I'm not quite clear about the tesla/panasonic relationship at this point. Is tesla making batteries under panasonic license at their own giga factory or are they pushing Panasonic out as a partner.?

Lastly, I think tesla dying a slow death isn't it? That merger was just to save some people's skin.

 

[Cabin111]

My understanding is they have tighter cell to cell tolerances...I'm not sure their energy density is that much higher than other makes. I'm also hearing rumors they push their hardware closer to the design limit (cells have a safe discharge rate limit), the drawback being a shorter lifespan. No big deal if they can just push performance downgrades OTA as the battery ages. Essentially, that's pretty scummy....hooking you w/max performance, then downgrading you to avoid warranty claims.

Also, I'm not quite clear about the tesla/panasonic relationship at this point. Is tesla making batteries under panasonic license at their own giga factory or are they pushing Panasonic out as a partner.?

Lastly, I think tesla dying a slow death isn't it? That merger was just to save some people's skin.

View attachment 218884

Tesla and Panasonic are going their separate ways.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/02/03/toyota-panasonic-joint-venture-batteries/

 

[Cuddles]

My understanding is they have tighter cell to cell tolerances...I'm not sure their energy density is that much higher than other makes. I'm also hearing rumors they push their hardware closer to the design limit (cells have a safe discharge rate limit), the drawback being a shorter lifespan. No big deal if they can just push performance downgrades OTA as the battery ages. Essentially, that's pretty scummy....hooking you w/max performance, then downgrading you to avoid warranty claims.

Also, I'm not quite clear about the tesla/panasonic relationship at this point. Is tesla making batteries under panasonic license at their own giga factory or are they pushing Panasonic out as a partner.?

Lastly, I think tesla dying a slow death isn't it? That merger was just to save some people's skin.

View attachment 218884

damn, just came across this:

 

[ggelitetrader000]

That's not proof of superiority.

I have a Model S (wife's car) and I use the 240v home hookup, but I don't drive the car if I forget to charge it overnight. The ICE automakers are going to eat Tesla alive with the HV-systems.

What is HV systems? I think it is the other way aruond tesla is threatening ICE carmakers?

 

[Overnight]

No...And I do not know the industry (electrical). I could not tell you an amp from a volt.

Volts push you at a certain speed. Amps push you at that speed but with a certain amount of force.

10,000 volts at .001 amps is like a spark you get from rubbing your socks on a carpet and touching a doorknob. A tickle.

1 volt at 10 amps will cause you harm.

 

[Metamega]

Volts push you at a certain speed. Amps push you at that speed but with a certain amount of force.

10,000 volts at .001 amps is like a spark you get from rubbing your socks on a carpet and touching a doorknob. A tickle.

1 volt at 10 amps will cause you harm.

Calculation needs ohms( resistance). 1 volt lacks any way to get through humans skin to allow amperage to get to dangerous levels for humans. Take for instance a simple car battery. You could touch those leads all day and never get lit up.

E = I x R.
Voltage = amperage x resistance.

You pretty much always know voltage and resistance. Now theirs laws that pertain to series and parallel resistors but the that’s another story.

Cant remember the amperage required to drop a human. Think it’s 0.3 amps is enough to throw your heart out of sync and drop. But you can you throw yourself in series with something drawing 10 amps, that amp level drops adding your resistance to the circuit.

 

[Cuddles]

Calculation needs ohms( resistance). 1 volt lacks any way to get through humans skin to allow amperage to get to dangerous levels for humans. Take for instance a simple car battery. You could touch those leads all day and never get lit up.

E = I x R.
Voltage = amperage x resistance.

You pretty much always know voltage and resistance. Now theirs laws that pertain to series and parallel resistors but the that’s another story.

Cant remember the amperage required to drop a human. Think it’s 0.3 amps is enough to throw your heart out of sync and drop. But you can you throw yourself in series with something drawing 10 amps, that amp level drops adding your resistance to the circuit.

It's .3, 50v to overcome resistance. Likely why 48v. Is somewhat common in some mild hybrids/diesels

 

[DallasCowboysFan]

LG Chem is a leader is home storage batteries.
They are also a leader in solar panels.

I don't know if they produce batteries for EV's, but it does not seem like it would be a difficult transition.

https://news.energysage.com/lg-chem-resu-battery-review/

https://www.lgenergy.com.au/products/battery

 

[You]

In 2018, I used to work for Vivint Solar and sold panels door to door.

At that time, we had the Mercedes Benz partnership and Mercedes had beta sites in California, testing home storage solutions for their electric cars.

However, there were too many delays and they were dropped for LG.
Today, you won't find anything about MB at Vivint Solar.

Yes, LG Chem (at least in 2018) had some of the highest efficiency panels, but there were also some of the most expensive. Most buyers of panels were looking for the cost savings. Unless cost was no object, LG wasn't popular.

What sold panels was $ of ((# of panels) x (how much light your roof gets)) spread out over 20yrs vs your current electric bill. LG is a tough sell.

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Talking about the future of storage, I haven't seen anybody talk about ultra capacitors. Lamborghini announced many months ago, the first car with ultra capacitors. It's not for sale yet, but I see this being the future, and one of the reasons that Tesla dropped Panasonic.

I've been reading up on the ultra capacitors for over a year now and have been curious of it's potential. When ultra capacitors design and usage has improved, they could completely change everything.

Recently, Tesla bought what I think may be the best ultra capacitor maker. I was following this company before Tesla bought them.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...pend-218-million-on-an-ultracapacitor-company

Here is a (6yr old)video of a guy who replaced his car battery with capacitors (same company that Tesla bought).

And somebody who was inspired but the guy above, and has been using the same capacitors for 3yrs as a car battery. Not perfect, but we are really close.

On Lamborgini's
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/fas...-boost-from-mit-developed-supercapacitor.html